Quote:
"It appears that Bernhard has given conflicting information on the subject."

Please remember that the Leerburg tapes are also Ed's interpetation of what Bernard says . Bernard now brings up that very point before each seminar, as he realizes that there is a language barrier and that Ed's tapes, although excellent, are not exactly what Bernhard says ( they're pretty darn close though )

And after six seminars of seeing Bernard, I can't remember a single time that he expressed any notion that chewing on the ball should be tolerated.

And Melissa,
You're seeing that the advice that you get here may be ( and often is ) different than what Bernhard teaches - some people will indicate that they're giving *their* opinion, some won't. No big deal, but when we discuss the Flinks method, as you started out in your inital post, and the post is correctly in the Flinks forum, you'd think that people might take care to give advice that is at least in agreement with Bernard .
Or they can always post why their method is superior to Bernhard's. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Will,

Is the ball issue such an important one because the dumbell is considered a prey item in the motivational retrieve, and the dog is worked in prey during the initial steps of bite training? I don't have the motivational retrieve dvd yet, but I would like to have a more thourough understanding of the concept behind it. Are there different types of handler conflicts for the dog? ie, toy possiveness related to dominance, fear, etc? I know intuitivly how to handle my dog's issues, but it would be interesting to hear a little bit about drive interaction from someone who has worked with Flink's methodology.

For me, it is not just enough to know that the dog must not chew the ball, but I have to know why. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

One seminar is just not enough! I have too many questions! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I am certainly not suggesting that I'm in the same league with Bernhard, or that my "methods" are superior. Maybe a little more attention to the prior post should be given. :rolleyes:

Quote: Bernard specifically said that chewing on the ball was not a big deal, IF the dog did not also chew on the bite roll or tug. He said 'many dogs chew on the ball. If the dog is not chewing on the roll, but chew on the ball, the possibility of not chewing on the sleeve is very high'. If you want to see it, the queue is 2:24 on the dvd, third part, last scene, when he is outside.

If this is Bernhard speaking, and I'm sorry but I don't have a copy of the lecture then it is indeed conflicting with the statement:

Quote: And after six seminars of seeing Bernard, I can't remember a single time that he expressed any notion that chewing on the ball should be tolerated.

Having noted that, I agree that chewing on the ball should not be allowed when working on "grip" training. I agree with Bernhards statement that if there is no problem with the grip on the tug or sleeve then a little munching on the ball is not a big deal. That's really all I was trying to say. My dogs are a perfect example. Both munch the ball somewhat but both have full calm grips in protection. So if I'm using the ball as a "reward" for say heeling, I don't really care how firm he is holding it. Now if I'm working on bringing up the drive and specifically on the "grip" then I correct it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I really didn't mean to start debating the finer points of Bernhard's training. We all know he is a legend in his own right. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Melissa:
"For me, it is not just enough to know that the dog must not chew the ball, but I have to know why."
And that's part of the reason why you just blew us away at the last seminar with how good a dog trainer you were! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Actually, the dumbell as a prey item is an old concept in motivation training, but Bernhard tries to lessen that somewhat by adding the view of having the dog exchange the less wanted item, ie., the dumbell, for the more wanted item, ie., a ball or tug.

And the make up of the dogs personality determines both the strengths and weaknesses of a dog, just as it determines the different types of conflicts that a dog may exhibit here - to include dominance issues. Fear is usually never a factor, but if it was, a serious training mistake had been made ( I don't like using the term fear for something like "the dog is fearful of loosing the item". I think "concerned" is more accurate there ).

"One seminar is just not enough! I have too many questions!"
Hehe.....to me, six seminar haven't been enough - and I'm sure I'll be going to more in the future. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />