I heard that the Malinois should have the same temperment as a GSD, but he has boundless energy and cat like agility. Is this a just folk lore of a then new popular Protection dog.

I know that some working dogs can live in a pack environment and accept the human members as Alpha. Does the Mal have a problem with this? And would you say that a stronger then normal Alpha leader is needed to handle a Mal pack.

The Mal have a reputation of hitting hard (jumping into the decoy) how does this related to being fearful, is this some kinda of redirected prey drive that they don't care if they get injuried? You know they are not very big. The largest pure breed I've seen is about 75lbs, I've seen mixed Mals larger.

Can a Mal be trained to work as a team, in protection work? I've seen GSD and Dobbies do it. Would it be harder to teach these prey mad work dogs to do this? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Malinois and GSDs are different.
As far as the Alpha leader you probably wouldn't have as much trouble getting it to mind you as it might be on keeping it to attack someone else in your family, etc. compared to the GSD. These dogs are like the APBT on people rather than dogs. Not dumb machines but very fierce. They're EXTREMELY high civil drive. You'd have to watch children around it closely. You aren't going to be able to take a dog like this into a preschool like some other breeds.

Some people out there feel they have too much prey drive, and are a tad bit too nervous. Usually in comparison to the GSD.

A Malinois can do anything that any other working dog can do, (GSD-Dobie), usually better because they've had a less time to be watered down. You can find other breeds to match them but it's more difficult unless you pay alot of money, and get a great breeder.

Also as far as their tendency to retreat are get nervous on slick floors, etc., is the training you give them. Some people don't like this breed, others do but dislike the competition they compete in and training methods that make them retreat. The dog doesn't have the tendency to be fearful, you just have to properly train them and have the decoy know when to retreat. Any dog can be pushed too far and ruined.

It's not very uncommon to see a Malinois over 90lbs. That's a lean one too. If one wanted them to weigh much more which they -shouldn't-, they still can. The biggest one I've seen is 110lbs. TOO BIG but some people want them that way for their reasons. Most of the sport and police dog people you'll meet here keep their dog lean for health and agility reasons.

They will hit like lighting. Their speed and their weight can knock a man flat to the ground. Even a 60lb Malinois going 40 yards can go 25mph I'd suspect. When you look at the laws of physics, that's a very damaging blow for a human. They can easily jump an eight to ten foot wall also.

On rank dominance they are no worse than any known working breed. I'd say that the Rott, Dogo, and many Mastiff like breeds would be worse generally.

Cudahy - BradG
90 - 110lbs Malinois these are dogs outside their specifications, wouldn't you say. I heard of them being hard when you find one that will work. What I've seen is that the patrol dogs are good at what they do but they are not versitle. Like you said they couldn't be brought into a school setting and greet kids.

To tell the truth it seems that though the GSD or Mals are placed in the same category. They really are not even close to having the same expectation, in a dog.

The GSD is expected to go from aggressive Patrol dog to greeting kids and citizens when told to. But it seems ok for the Mal to be aggressive all the time, it is not expected to be docile at anytime. This would be called poor nerves if judging a GSD, it would not be tolerated.

Mals have built a reputation for being super patrol dogs with tremendous stamina. Some people say that they bite harder then a GSD, but what I've seen is that they just try to kill the prey item harder. I like the way they look and work, but their overall specification, varys so much. I've noticed that some back yard breeders have Mals for sale, is this were all theses scary, nerverous and won't exit the fence dogs are coming from?

Is the 90-110lb Mal as agile as the 60-70lbs dogs?

No, that's not ideal size. I've seen some that're 90 but very lean and tall. Ideal is 60 to 80lbs I'd think.

They are close in ways, but in many ways not I hear. They're from the same backgrounds of breeds, but their drives are different usually.

Your right about the GSDs well roundedness, I think they're too well rounded. I'd prefer them to be more serious. They once were I think. But people have watered them down. They weren't that much different in temparament long ago. I'm sure there were plenty in the Vietnam War that were just as intense. There more like the Dutch Shepherd than the Malinois though. The Dutch Shepherd is more sensitive, while the Malinois perfers a good crack to the head to learn his lesson.

It all depends on what you want, if you want a more relaxed dog then the GSD might be better. If you want a raw no nonsense dog that's very intense and will work 24/7 then a Malinois would be a worthy choice.

The smaller dogs are always more agile everytime. Ideally you wouldn't want them to weigh more than 80lbs or so. Like I said before some just happen to be so large in structure that they can't be much thinner and they still weigh alot . The 110lbs one I saw once was just too fat, bottom line. Bad judgment on the handler's part.

If you want one that's more well rounded and calmer then you should go with a Dutch Shepherd, there's GSDs you can find that are like them but they're higher in price and it takes the right breeder to find them. The breeders on this board are the ones that breed for the more serious GSD in my opinion. If you feel like you want an ulimate GSD but are afraid you won't get a good one because of the time it takes then I'd go with a Dutch Shepherd. Many kennels want their top GSDs to go to their Police Officers and top sport competitors. That's understandable, they want to promote and keep the breed alive with law enforcement.

This is just my opinion from what I've been told by many experts of these breeds. I hope it's helped you out.

Thanks the Malanois seems to be a good working dog. I guess I'm going to have to stop saying little working dog, I learned some can be tall and heavy. Really I've learned, a lot of things.

But he does not sound like a good dog for a family especially if it has several dogs or animals and small kids in it. Maybe if raised from a puppy, but the kids would have to be taught not to run from the dog or play rough. And you have put the cat up and the parrot in his cage.

Having read this thread,I wonder why you wanted a Mal,this is one of the few pure working breeds left and should remain that way.
Buying a Mal for a family dog is promoting it to the general public and hence it will sooner or later become the in dog to have and that spells disaster for the breed.
The Mal is a wonderful dog,regretably I have only ever had the privalige to work with one and that was one hell of a dog but not the family pet.
I work Rotts for various security related purposes and they are good at their job but if I was on the other side of the fence,I would rather meet one of my Rotts than one of Josh's Mals.
Paul

I don't want a Mal, its either too scary a dog for me or too mean a dog for me. There does not seem to be any in between. I've seen some pretty mean Mals, they can really act a fool and they hit pretty hard. But let us stop trying to make them the next best thing since steak sauce.

I'm just trying to cut through the BS is it a versitle do all dog. If it was measured by the standard that we measure the GSD would it be of solid temperment, strong nervered and a reliable dog? No, it would fail this test.

Does it do Ob, protection, track hard and have good drive? Yes. This along is not good enough for a GSD patrol dog. There are some GSD like this but they are apporached with caution and said to be crazy.

From a deterrent stand point the GSD and the Rottie would be the strongest deterrent because of their reputation.

The assailant would probably not be afraid of a Mal sitting still because he would not know what it was. Until he got in the fence and the Mal (if he not a scary one, that would run) would go crazy on him. Some Mals have a problem with the out and can be handler aggressive, at this point if you try to pull them off.

I'm not talking down the Mal, but its not a versitle a dog. Unless we are talking working, it a good work dog. It seems to be a specail purpose dog. Thats ok we need some of those.

Granted it is a pure breed, but its seem to be just a patrol and working dog. Then you lock it up, like its wild.

Even a superior working breed GSD (few as they may be) can be around kids and people without fear of the dog attacking the kids. I know police dogs that off duty at home act just like a house pet, after an evening of kicking much butt on the street in the real world.

I got the answers to my questions. With the exception of one. I've heard that a Mal can put a inflated basketball in its mouth. Does the Mal have an extra large mouth? Its becoming a dog of folklore, like the fabled locking jaws of PBT.

I don't want a Malinois, I'll keep watching them from afar. A Family of Mals are out or a Family with a Mal.
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Have you considered a Dutch Shepherd?

No working dog should live in a "pack" with other dogs, that is stupid. It is counter productive to the training process.

Once fully trained MAYBE, it depends on the dogs in question and the owner's experience, skill, and. . . . sanity. lol

A lot of people generalize about the Malinois, but I have found that they are a breed that shouldn't be generalized about. As for being pets, I have seen KNPV PH dogs live as home companions (got one at my brother's house right now) that do very well with people (loves my kids and plays nice), and I have seen ones that you wouldn't want to be in the same room with, indoors, if your life depended on it.