there are breeders out there who breed for the "total" dog, I know in GSD's their are american line german shepherd breeders who keep the working aspect of the GSD in mind. They're are plenty of them out there, you just have to look harder <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Rottnvegas comments on the Rott with a Basenji temperament,but one thing we must bear in mind here is that most Rotts go to family homes and temperament is paramount,there are not so many Rotts in a true working environment and many LE will only use them for siege or riot control as they do not have the speed of a GSD or Mal.
If you actually go into facts and figures,only Israel seems to prefer them over other breeds for military and police use.
This is why there are two distinct breeds of Rott starting to appear,the pet and the real working dog and finding the latter is not that easy.
Are we confusing the character of the dog with its aggression,the latter can be brought out with training but a naturally aggressive dog is difficult to correct to a level making it suitable for a family home.
I would agree that most Rotts being bred these days do lack the drives needed for work and this again most likely is deliberate on the part of some breeders in an effort to sell to the pet market.
Paul

Sable wrote: "there are breeders out there who breed for the "total" dog, I know in GSD's their are american line german shepherd breeders who keep the working aspect of the GSD in mind. They're are plenty of them out there, you just have to look harder"

There may be American line GSD breeders that keep working aspects of the GSD in mind, but thats the only place you will find it. In their minds, not anywhere in their dogs. They also as a whole have zero working knowledge and experience. I challenge anyone to find me an American Line GSD with show titles that can do good protection or police work. If he is out there, it is 1 in a 1000000000000000000000000000000000 chance. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> I have never, in my 10+ years of working GSDs, seen one AKC show breeder that knew dick about work, working drives, or training a real working dog. I spend a lot of time hunting throughout different GSD circles looking for working dogs and working people. None have I ever found from Amercian show lines. Zero!

But, I have seen working line Rottweilers do some action in AKC shows.

Joe,

If a breed is to be maintained as a single type of dog and not split in to show/work lines, then people have to do both with their dogs. If you are gripping that the show dogs can't work, answer this: How many working dogs were entered? In addition are the working breeders paying attention to conformation when they breed. Often the answer is no.

Over the weekend I watched the UKC version of the top level retriever trials. Great working dogs, in tests designed to simulate real working conditions for the dogs. Great test for the dogs in a wide variety of areas. I looked at the dogs though. None of them carried very good conformation. The heads were apple domed, the muzzles were very narrow (more like a setter than a retriever), the chests look like the were very barrel chested, and on and on. To me being fairly familiar with the breeds involved I would have thought they were cross breeds and not pure breed dogs. They worked like the dickens though.

I will say it again, if you aren't entering you working dogs in a conformation ring, DON"T GRIPE about the split between working and show. It is being maintained in some breeds, For VanCamps sake I won't mention any, but it is being done. One of the things that will help is for the breed not to be too popular. If no one knoes what it is they aren't going to run out and get a dog they can't handle. It also falls on the breeders to select proper homes for their puppies. People that will work and show, and make an effort to maintain the breed.

Richards comments make a whole lot of sense,very few working breeders have any interest in conformation shows and this shows in most of the working breeds,there are exceptions but I still think in general there is a reluctance on both sides to join forces and produce the perfect all round dog if that is possible.
The one thing that would concern me is who sets the conformation standard and how,few breeds are the same now as when they were originally introduced,the Dobbie as originally bred was soon altered on Herr Dobermanns death to make it more popular to a larger following,did this improve the breed.
Paul

rottenvegas- I have a 11mo. old male that came out of TEUFELSBRUCKE kennels and his father is out of SCHWAIGER WAPPEN kennels.All 5 generations on his fathers side are all sch. titled. His mothers side is SIEDLERPHAD and SCHWAIGER WAPPEN. Three generations on the mothers side are also sch. titled. I have shown anton twice in the 9 to 12 month class and won first and second. I plan on titled him and then sch. title him. He has great drive and focus.I think i can really get both. I dont know if you have ever shown or not but i will tell you this, there is ALOT of politics in the show ring. We all got to go for it ! Lets have a awsome looking breed standard rottie and a sch 111 titled dog! Im going to suceed! Thanks for letting me voice my opinion.

Right on, Rottie Man! You go!

OOOPS!!!! Sorry rottenvegas my reply was meant for rottiedogz. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> It was just a moment of brain dead!! My mistake. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Rottie good for you!! the conformatin ring is a lot of fun, you will enjoy it. Also that would be great to have a schH 3 CH out there!! The only one in GSD's that comes to mind (recently) is Jim Von Fiermeck(sp), he is a Select CH in the USA and Canada and is also a SchH 3!!

 Quote:

Originally posted by rottiedogz:
my new rottie pup has interesting lines in his pedigree. on the sire's pedigree, there's about 75% working dog titles, with the sire being an akc ch. the dam's pedigree has about 70% akc titles w/a few working dog titles. i definatly want to put working dog titles on him, im wondering, will he be able to be shown in akc and do schutshund work?

What exactly are your dog's bloodlines? And whats the age of your dog? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />