Well, here is my $.02.

The fact that the dogs are both finished champions does not mean much other than they were able to stand for the judge for inspection. You said you didn't see any OB titles, and something else I want to point out about titles that I think is a flaw.

AKC and SchH both have groups of people that "location" train. When I started working my dog I was told to "work him in a field similar to a SchH field" THIS IS STUPID, but there are people that do it. For me OB is real life. The command that I use on the field is the same as the command I use in the living room. Dogs do learn locations and the fact that the dog was able to (possibly) get a OB title in a little fenced in ring doesn't mean the dog was fully trained. Yes, there are distractions in a OB trial, but these type of real life distractions are not there.

Ok, now back to the dog. The rumor about the owner being bit can only be handled as such. My shepherd bites me, on accident, but to a non-dog person it seems like an intended bite. He is just going for the ball and I didn't move fast enough. To non-dog people any tooth contact is considered a bite. So keep that in mind when you hear these type of rumors.

Should this have happened? NO. Should the dog have been on leash? Yes. Could it happen again? Yes. The owner was negligent and did not have control of the dog, period. The fact that she wasn't physically able to handle the dog properly only compounds that fact. With dominant breeds they will test you and your limits often. If she was having back problems the dog probably hadn't been "worked" in a long time either. Obedience isn't a class you take for 8 weeks and get a certificate in and then never do again. Too bad there are a lot of owners that think that is how it works.

One of the problems in pack mentality with dogs is that they will often attack an injured member of the pack. Based on that I can see how this may happen. This is one of the real problems with dogs and small children. In a group it just gets worse.

Another point of concern in this story is that the dogs were off lead with children they don't live with. I don't care how well they are trained. I really doubt that this is a prey response if the dogs had any training at all.

There are many people that get dogs that they can't control. I see it often with people that want to train their dogs in protection. In many cases the problem is technique as well as strenght. Most people can't figure out how to keep their feet under them so they can use leverage to maintain position. I watch them bend at the waist and try and use arm strentgh to control a dog that out weighs them, and then they can't figure out why they can't control the dog.

Many unfortunate accidents occur with dogs and kids simply because the dogs react to the kid as if the kid is a dog. That is the dog's mentality.

Recently there was an article in the newspaper stating a housepet (Rottie) mauled and killed a crying infant as the child laid in his crib.

DAAH!!! The dog should not have been permitted to be anywhere near the infant let alone without adult restraint and supervision.

Here’s a link to the story and a follow-up

Killer canine was champ at shows

http://www.montereyherald.com/mld/montereyherald/3121104.htm

Officials euthanize Rottweiler, Family at his side


http://www.montereyherald.com/mld/montereyherald/news/3181537.htm

Richard wrote:

One of the problems in pack mentality with dogs is that they will often attack an injured member of the pack.
Based on that I can see how this may happen.

Does this mean you don't think it was prey drive that triggered this attack? I'm not sure how to classify this dog's reaction, if it is possible to come up with a reasonable assumption on the scant documentation of what happened. Why is it almost always the intact dog involved in this, or is it just the more sensational coverages happen to be intact males. I've found in my quarantine situations, it is predominantly the intact male involved in the more serious bites and attacks. (ie. those not involving fear.) I come from a professional horse background, and we have an approach to working with difficult horses. It's not strength that is going to keep us out of trouble, it's gradual, consistent training. I realize that it is not fair equating horses and dogs, one's a carnivore, one's a herbavore (spelling?) But strength alone should not be the way we depend on keeping our dogs in line. And I also think off leash work is an important ingredient to dogs developing the proper respect for a handler. Try re-calling your sheep chasing dog and see how quick he comes without a little practice first!!! But how is something like this packaged to help prepare rottie owners for the depth of their responsibility? I've always felt 95% of rottie owners have more dog than they can ever handle, and will never have the commitment or ability to reach an appropriate level of control. This is just my opinion, based on 22 years in animal control and another 15 years with rotties. My level of training experience if far over shadowed by many on this list,,,,but I'm all ears. This is a serious problem and will not go away. Right now the state is not breed restrictive, but that is an attitude that is changing politically. I spent the last few days trying to get quotes on new homeowners insurance, and quess what,,,,no one wants to cover rotties.....thanks to the situations we're discussing. I will be paying an extra $200 to $300 because of owners that just "didn't realize my dog would bite." I wish I had a dime every time I heard that when out on a quarantine. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Susan

If a dog is unstable he most often will remain unstable even when nueted. To much is made out of wether to have an entire dog or a nueted dog.There is a place for this subject, but not in this case. The fact is that this dog would have had a history but the owner ignored all the signs.
The person is at fault, and people like this are responsible for these laws against dogs.
It's never the gun but the person holding the gun
The head lines should read " killer woman " not
" killer rotty "
Ross (Dot`s other half)

Richard:

Do you think that it is possible that male saw the little girl as a challegeing her for position in the pack, and the made suttle (spelling) dominate moves like eye contact. Then finally saw her screaming as the last straw?? In the paper the grandma said that her dog started screaming, so I assume that it started barking when the girl did.

Robert

wismz-
From what I read it seems that you had two kid and the grandmother all screaming same time.
Not good for a dog with good nerves,(this Rott's nerves who knows) this dog was only OB trained??

My take is that with all the hystria the Rott became confussed. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Did the little girl move too qick away or towards the Rott. Eihter could trigger defensive or prey button on this dog.

My GSD wiil alert when anyone screams. If he thinks my wife or I are in danger.

What's strange is that when the female Rott was bitting on his leg he didn't turn away to face the female. That should have become a bigger threat if he was was in defensive state. So did that make him think the little girl as prey. We will never know.

We always put our dog up whan kids come over for this reason. You can not tell at what time anything can set a dog off. Only thing in my favor and wife's is that we can control at all times.
Then again it only takes a split second, I can't move as fast as my GSD. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Getting old.

This is so sad for the family that was raised with these two Rotts. We that handle and work with these dogs know too well the damage that they can do.
Show dogs yes, but still capable of
terrible damage when set off.

Let's hope that we don't hear of something like this again, but I'm afraid we will. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Well i guess the bottom line is that a serious bred is serious business. These dogs will never be labs in Rotts clothing. Same goes for any protection breed.

Crabtree:
Yeah, I hope we don't hear about this again but the way things go we probaly will. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Robert

These dogs should never have been off-leash outside their own yard. Not that the leash would have stopped them, but the owner would have had a better chance of getting control of the dog with a good leash and prong coller.

Rotts are becoming the new "pit bulls" in my city. More and more people are buying one. I frequently see young dog owners with them and many are obviously not obedience trained.

I don't have children. Nevertheless, my dog does know the difference between a screaming child and a chew toy. From the end of May to the beginning of September the 8 acre park I live behind is filled with screaming kids and parents playing soccer. I take him there a lot (on leash). He is also never off leash when the kids are outside and we are in the front yard. I don't want any accidents. He is a very calm and relaxed dog, but standard poodles are noted for their play drive and he can get quite excited and rambunctious at times.

Having and preparing a dog for the world outside is a big responsibility. Having a protection breed means you have to work even harder to train and prevent a dog's natural instincts from taking over in a surprise situation. If you have a protection breed you're already minus a few points in the public's eyes. RESPONSIBILITY and ACCOUNTABILITY are two key words that come to mind.

Life sucks big time. It's unfortunate so many good people and dogs are prejudged and damned based on a few bad apples. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />