Quote:

Originally posted by az trooper:
Have you all seen Von Emsbogen? there are several examples of BSP top 10s with V rated conformation. Maybe the riddle of the ages is this; how does one with relative consistency, produce SG ro better rated dogs with the potential to perform as service dogs?

seen Emsbogen dogs? I own 2 Boomer granddaughters
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

but he's not the only one, Tiekerhook Kennels has V rated working dogs. There are a few more, but I'm tired (just got off an unexpected night shift) and can't think too good right now.

$64,000 QUESTION: Are these Tiekerhook and similar dogs SHOW dogs simply because they obtain a V rating?

Or are they working line dogs that ALSO have good conformation?

VanCamp-

Sorry about the star man; if I had one I'd give it to you. LOL

German show dogs are worked, as in herding or what?
Is this just a small percentage or are all capable of being titled and worked?
BTW this member rating thing seems like a good way for some people to get back at someone when they lose the debate (they can take away a star). <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> :rolleyes:

Dave Lilly that is a very good point. Tiekerhook is a working kennel, BTW. When I'm talking about German Show lines there is a problem because there is more of a grey area in the German lines than the American show lines. Just about all the German dogs are registered with the SV you can't tell just by seeing their pinks what you are getting, there are also quite a few working line dogs that can, and do, get V rated for confirmation. The German Show lines that I am talking about are the dogs that have primarily been bred to win Euro confirmation shows. They still have an element of prey drive so that is how they get their titles, but true workers most of them are not. You can usually tell the difference just by looking at them. The Show lines have that total uniformity look to them- slope butt, same colors, plush coat, heavy bone, etc. Look through Dog Fancy or Dog World magazine and look at the GSD adds. Most of the German Imports there are all Show line dogs. That is what I'm talking about when I say German Show Dogs. Like I said above, you would be smart, if you were concerned about confirmation to find working line dogs that have good confirmation. There are some out there.

Hey Tim, I think that I am going to be working to get either just one * star or just five *****. That way I know that I'm out there on the edge, right where I need to be. Everybody is against me because I'm right or everybody is with me becase I'm right. Either way I'm right, right?

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Unless things have changed, WHO KNOWS <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> , to get a dog registered in the SV to breed, it takes either a herding title or a schutzhund title. That is why the German dog are so much better than the AKC. I don't live in Germany so I'm not sure if all show people work their dogs, but they do need one of those titles.

Hi guys and girls if there are any! I by the way own one of them that is v,a or whatever rated, with sch3,f... and best of breed and all that other regalia. He is only 8 month, though I know that he had some good working lines somewhere in 3rd or 4th generation ( I think grand parents and great grand parents) but you never now what will become of him. We have done some basic obedience, trying to move furhter but it is a long way to go as so far for now it is a pet that we hope will grow into good working dog, if this is possible with this kind of mixture. Though remarkable feature about him is that he is really very smart and sometimes foxy if he wants to get his way - so it is hard to handle him. May be he is too much for us, but so far he is funny and joy of the family.
Looking at all that I would think that mixture of both show and working produces nice results, that's my opinion.

Thats great Vagabund. An 8 month old SchHIII is pretty cool. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Or did you mean he came from SchHIII parents?

I think that the show lines could benefit from some working lines, but not the other way around.

Here's a picture of my girl. She's as close to a mutt as they come with GSD papers. Mostly German show, with some working in there and some old American lines. She's got a roached back, energy of a working dog, and the trainability of a show dog <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> . I've been told that she'd do well in the American ring anyway (considering the competition) but I haven't ever shown her, just handling classes for fun. I did handling classes and still can't get a good picture of her, oh well. Working lines for me next time.

Judging by the reactions I've gotten while walking her, the average public likes it when the show lines are toned down a bit (structurally, mentally she's all blonde).

For 8 months that sure would have been cool, but unfortunately that's not him -
his parents and grand/great parents, so far genetics look good on paper, how will it perform in future I do not know. I am becoming extremely fond of him. By the way, he looks almost like Lauren's girl- nice bitch.

We need get the idea that show and work have to be mutually exclusive. They don't and shouldn't be.

I got a phone call last night from a friend of mine. Her 8 month old BRT puppy took out 2 guys yesterday afternoon. This is a dog out of some of the top show lines in Russia and the U.S. and is beautiful. The story is that my friend was at her sisters, who has been helping a couple of homeless gang types. The guys were in the back yard and the dog was let out with them. My friend went out and introduced the dog to the guys. Everything was just fine. She and the dog were playing. One of the guys slipped a hood on his sweat shirt over his head, snuck up behind her, and started waiving his arms around her head. The dog saw it and came across the yard and took him out. Didn't bite, just knocked him off his feet and back about 6 feet. The dog outed perfectlyand returned to the handler and did a perfect down stay. Of course his moron friend must not have believed it, so he did basicly the same thing to the same result.

Now this is an 8 month old pup with no bite training. The attack was in prey, and perfect for the situation. I don't think there will be much of a problem doing his protection training.