Good one Mike thanks!

I have a Yoschy granddaughter, and she has no problems being on tile, slick surfaces, indoors etc. She is energetic, more def than prey. But I've only had her a couple of wks now and the prey is starting to show itself. In bitework she'd rather go after the handler after having won the sleeve <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You need to re-read what Kevin wrote about Fero and Yoschy - he did not say the test is a normal slick floor - the test is a stressful situation - a dark building at night - a stairwell - a building search - these are more than walking on a slippery floor in daylight.

If you have Fero progeny I would recommend that you no line breed on it.

Having read Kevin's and Ed's post, I have a question....Yoschy is one of the dogs with the highest amount of progeny in the BSP, and from what has been written he is known to produce super high prey drive and full hard grips. so, great for schutzhund. however, kevin and ed from their posts are more concerned with police service work, in which from what they've seen the dogs out of yoschy are unstable in stressful environments. this points out to me, new to schutzhund, the vast gulf between schutzhund and police service work. a great schutzhund dog does not a police service dog make. while yoschy's progeny are documented in the bsp, i'm curious about police service dog studs and bitches: what dogs and bitches are preferred in a police service dog's pedigree? as a converse to fero and yoschy, have you found that there are dogs that produce great police service dogs that aren't that good for schutzhund, or is it a given that a great police service dog will make a great schutzhund dog? i'll post this question in the police section if that's more appropriate....

 Quote:

Stats through 2001 show Yoschy produced 26 dogs who participated in the Bundessiegerprufung (BSP), a record that is only exceeded by Drigon vom Fuhrmannshof (sired 39 BSP participants), Yoschy's grandsire Fero vom Zeuterner Himmelreich (sired 35 BSP particpants), Bernd vom Lierberg (sired 35 BSP participants), and Yoschy's sire Troll von der bösen Nachbarschaft (sired 28 BSP participants).

Don't forget Yoschy was breed 206 times. He had 1041 progeny. His BSP participation rate is 2.5%.

We look at mink who was only bred 67 times. 4.4% what if he would have been bred more? Sagus 91 breedings. 6.58%. Xento von der Maineiche 48 breedings. 10.19% BSP participation. Lewis von Malatesta 102 breedings 4.52% BSP.

So when you mention Fero and Yoschy we need the other side of it as well. Fero 241 breedings. 1181 progeny. 35 in the BSP 2.96% I don't find this very impressive. Then you throw on what Kevin and Ed have said. I also stay away from Fero. However, that may be because I am a Czech lover. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

todd, i remember you saying that you've had several of your dogs that you bred go into police service work, and you've competed in schutzhund as well i remember reading, so you would be able to answer my questions above. the statistics you cite are what i was looking at, surely there is a reason, some are listed above, why yoschy was bred so much. But i'm really interested in getting an answer on my questions about police service dogs, although this is a yoschy thread....

Let's face it, we could pick apart any stud dog out there no matter what he produces or how many offspring are in the BSP. Not eveyrone is going to agree on what bloodlines they like. There is more than the stud that plays into this..like the BITCH.

What I want to know is what % would Kevin estimate of Fero's progeny are bad? Are there good ones?

What about Troll VDBN? Troll's mother brought a lot to that breeding.

I have seen bad Troll sons, who were mostly line bred back to Fero, but I have seen a handful that I would love to own from all different kids of lines.

One that I would have sold my left arm for was from a bitch that went back on Gento vh Larwin, Ilk Peko Haus and a lesser know dog Putz vh Sevens.



Seems that a lot of breeders that are trying to produce police and sport dogs use Troll? Are they messing up for the most part? I have not seen many Yoschy dogs that I liked, but I have not seen many.

Right, Karmen, perhaps the reason for some studs haveing more breedings is because their owners are less selective of the bitches they grant breedings to. There for the quality drops off.

Chet

Any dog that is bred into the 100+ times. . .I can't possibly believe the owner is selective at all.