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Re: Protection Training: Train myself, or professionally?
[Re: Phil the SP ]
#54 - 10/05/2001 11:56 AM |
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My blank slate comment was purely environmental/training. A puppy is like a sponge waiting to soak up knowledge. Foundation or imprinting stays with a dog for the rest of its life. No matter what patchwork is applied to fix a problem. Most dogs regress to there imprinting when stress is introduced.
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rosep wrote 10/05/2001 02:30 PM
Re: Protection Training: Train myself, or professionally?
[Re: Phil the SP ]
#55 - 10/05/2001 02:30 PM |
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If I were a responsible handler, why would my life need to be in imminent danger for me to have a PPD?
I do what I can to be responsible... Some breeders/trainers I spoke to had a requirement that I must be in danger to have one. Yet, I could build myself a small armory if I were so inclined.
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Re: Protection Training: Train myself, or professionally?
[Re: Phil the SP ]
#56 - 10/05/2001 03:43 PM |
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There was an episode of Law and Order recently that addressed basically that issue. It was based on the case in San Francisco, I think it was, where the lawyers had their clients' dogs in their possession, and the dogs got out and killed a woman in the hallway of her apartment building. Anyway, in this episode, it had to do with a guy who was breeding and training Pit Bulls. A couple had bought one of the dogs for protection, and the dog ended up attacking and killing a woman in the park. It turned out that the guy who was training the dogs had been torturing them to make them vicious. Both he and the couple who purchased the dog were found criminally liable. Now granted, this is a fictional situation, but I would imagine that if I were breeding and selling protection dogs, I would want to cover my ass and not sell a trained adult to just anybody. I think it's understandable to be asking those questions of anyone who expresses an interest in purchasing such a dog.
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Re: Protection Training: Train myself, or professionally?
[Re: Phil the SP ]
#57 - 10/05/2001 04:39 PM |
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People have asked me, and I know other trainers who have been asked too, whether we can "train a dog" for them. Invariable first question: "Train him to do what?" "Well, er, uh, um... to attack people."
And you always know in these situations that these hotheads would be the first to send their dog on some obnoxious teenager cutting up in the street, or a guy standing near their driveway who they don't like the looks of.
Reputable protection trainers will ALWAYS want to know just who you are and just why you want a protection-trained dog.
Pete Felknor
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Re: Protection Training: Train myself, or professionally?
[Re: Phil the SP ]
#58 - 10/05/2001 04:40 PM |
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This question is not to degrade the serious personal protection trainer who has a specific purpose and goal designed to fill a specific, legitimate need. But really, is personal protection training becoming a fad? One of the posts mentioned that a concealed weapon can't be carried in their state. That is a limitation. But where can you take a dog for protection where you can't take a gun? IOW doesn't a protection trained dog have just as many limitations? How likely is it that your dog will be with you when protection is needed, unless he is used for a specific job like security? But for the average person to desire a PP dog doesn't make a lot of sense. At one time I was inquiring into getting a trained PP dog. Someone had just been murdered who touched the dog fanciers here personally, and it seemed like a good idea at the time. When the dog trainer asked me why I wanted one, and found that I had no idea what it involved, he suggested I buy a gun.
Sharon |
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Re: Protection Training: Train myself, or professionally?
[Re: Phil the SP ]
#59 - 10/05/2001 05:08 PM |
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Very good point, Sharon. I think even your average hothead realizes that if he SHOOTS at that obnoxious teenager or weirdo on the sidewalk, there is going to be hell to pay. Maybe not so with a dog--or so they think. The dog will just "harrass" the person and impress them with what a bad ass the guy with the dog is.
They'd know better, of course, if they'd take the time to get personally involved with the dog's training. And they might also learn something about liability.
BTW this isn't intended as a rip on Phil, who I think came here sincerely seeking answers.
Pete Felknor
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rosep wrote 10/05/2001 05:54 PM
Re: Protection Training: Train myself, or professionally?
[Re: Phil the SP ]
#60 - 10/05/2001 05:54 PM |
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It should be so hard to get automatic weapons...
A PPD isn't for everyone to be sure. I'm an average person - why wouldn't my needs be legitimate? I'm not an alarmist when it comes to security but I am a realist. My dog goes with me just about everywhere. I don't want a gun. If you want a gun you should also receive extensive training in how to use it, safety, what to do in the face of different threats, etc. I think its a huge responsibility but usually it isn't treated as such.
A well trained PPD is a safe dog - provided the handler is responsible. They will not take inappropriate bites whereas there are many dogs out there that will and do.
Unfortunately, people who really want an "attack dog" will be able to find one from not-so-reputable trainers. These are dangerous dogs made even more so by irresponsible handlers.
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Re: Protection Training: Train myself, or professionally?
[Re: Phil the SP ]
#61 - 10/05/2001 06:02 PM |
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Actually, the trend here is the reverse, it PP dogs have fallen far from favor b/c of the liability concerns.
What ppl seem to have a hard time understanding is that training the *dog* isn't the hard part, the new owner is going to need lots of training, and the maintenance training has to go on for the life of the dog. I'm sorry, but I just don't meet many folks who I believe are going to follow thru on that kind of training. If you really feel that you're in danger, move to a better neighborhood and/or get a gun. Most of the time, when someone calls me about PP training, they think they can do this w/their own pet dog. Most folks, once they really think about it don't want a bite trained dog, they want a good deterrent. A sport dog will do that nicely. Too many folks do want a PP dog to use to harass ppl and show off with.
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Re: Protection Training: Train myself, or professionally?
[Re: Phil the SP ]
#62 - 10/05/2001 06:22 PM |
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Comparing a PPD to a gun is comparing apples to oranges. Gun ownership is guaranteed in the Second Amendment to the US Constitution. Dog ownership is not. Irresponsible dog ownership endangers dog ownership, period. I have a great deal of respect for breeders and trainers who take it upon themselves to do everything they can to ensure that dogs the place or train are being done so to the right people for the right reasons.
I think the public perception of a bite trained dog is that of "Attack Dog", not "Protection Dog". The fact that the average person will use the term "Attack Dog" speaks directly to the general attitude about protection training that exists in the U.S.
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rosep wrote 10/05/2001 07:31 PM
Re: Protection Training: Train myself, or professionally?
[Re: Phil the SP ]
#63 - 10/05/2001 07:31 PM |
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I'm not comparing guns and dogs, but am curious as to why so many trainers readily recommend I get gun instead of a PPD. Both require much responsibility whether its in the Second Amendment or not. Too many people are blase about gun ownership, as many are about owning a PPD. And a gun doesn't make a good companion...
Its a shame that so few can ruin it for so many.
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