It is a combination of drives.

Herding Instinct is part of the survival instinct to hunt with a pack (prey drive) and to please the pack leader(pack drive). The prey drive inspires the dog to work with intensity; the pack drive forces it to obey its pack leader.

Your dogs need to learn 1) you are the pack leader 2) that thier behaviour is not acceptable.

Your dogs are also likely 'feeding'off of each other. Working more as a pack.

My dogs are trained in livestock herding, however, they are only allowed to do it when I (pack leader) say it is appropriate. Your dogs are doing it inappropriately. They are also growing stronger in their drives as they mature...that is why it is becoming more a problem.

In dogs with strong drives it is really important to show /teach them at a very young age , what is appropriate and what is not. You likely should have stopped this behaviour immediately, but it is not too late. The better relationship you have with your dogs the better/easier it will likley be to stop the behaviour.

It likely did start out as a game...but it is escalating fast into MUCH more. Your dogs need to be worked individually to respect you as pack leader.

The next step they may move too...will be neighbors livestock. Disaster waiting to happen.

Thank you shelly, very helpful.

Karmen, I have german shepherds. I also have a very good relationship with my dogs so it has not been a problem for me in teaching them that this is not acceptable. I never would have thought that this behavior would have escalated into the problem that it has become. Well, I learned quick. And all is going smooth now, so I thank the last 3 posts for answering my question and not pounding on me.

Now, how does that go? I only half remember the cute little diddy. . .goes something like this.


Any average trainer can fix a problem, a good trainer never lets the problem develop?


Something like that, I think you get the point Howard.

Gee, thanks Vancamp. I can always count on you to throw your cheap, useless 2 cents in on any conversation.

I agree with Ed, the e-collar works well when the dog is out of reach. Don't turn it up to high, just enough to get his attention on you. Use the "leave it" command when he attempts to bother the horses or anything else he shouldn't. We have lots of cattle here & it's worked after just a few attempts with my pup. Your dog could be seriously injured if he keeps attempting to bite, but it's clearly his instinctual drive to chase(herd).

Howard wrote: "Gee, thanks Vancamp. I can always count on you to throw your cheap, useless 2 cents in on any conversation."


Actually I thought that was pretty deep, and certainly not useless. It was also something that a very smart dog trainer told me one day when I was -F-ing up.

You have to be aware of your dog's behaviors at all times, that is a given. You also have to be aware of what is going to happen down the road based on what the dogs are doing, or you are letting them do, in the now.


I understand your nasty little comment, I'd be a little pissy too if I was the idiot that let my dog's "harmless" behavior of chasing horses snowball into a real problem. . .and then having the stones to ask what drive would be making them chase prey-like livestock animals and bite them.

Hey VC, That was at least a nickles worth that time. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Much of the advice you need is not what you want to hear. Often it is a fairly bitter pill to swallow when your errors are pointed out. In this case the axiom mentioned is something that is important for ever dog owner to learn. Keep in mind it takes 3-5 times as long to fix a problem as it took to create it. It will often take a good trainer a while to figure out how to "fix" a problem because they would have never allowed it to occur in the first place. Much of a puppy's behavior is "cute" when they are small, but when they grow up it isn't nearly as cute.

Have horses. Have dogs. Dog with terrific herding instincts at 5 months gripped horse - never bothered before, just when I mounted horse all of a sudden. Dog got kicked <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> . Thought dead dog...but luckily too close to do lots of damage. 2 dog e-collar is wonderful <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> ...I can take 4 dogs trail riding and all respect each other's space and have a good time. Dogs learn to respect horses and stay out of their space from beginning now. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Thanks everyone. I have been using the e collars and they are doing wonders for my dogs and horses.