<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Made some friends today. lol <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />


I may have overstated my opinion, but most of the civi SAR groups, or teams, that I have seen have had exactly zero knowledge of good dog selection or training. They had to go with weak dogs, because they couldn't handle training any other kind of animal or they didn't know any better.

Answer this question for yourselves. How many of these folks went out and selected the best possible dogs to train/work and how many of them had nice pets at home and wanted to train them in SAR? "To find something that we can both do together. "To do something to serve our community." "I think Buster would be a great SAR dog." Sure their dogs can run around the fields and woods for hours on end, but were they scenting/working the whole time? Not even close. . .

Well meaning weekenders mostly. A noble effort no doubt, but not someone that I would want the lives of my family depending on.

And about the "fight" or "defense" you don't breed for a lesser dog, there will be plenty of them in the average litter. And even then, with good training the combat drives of the dog, in no way, have a negative effect on the ability to do SAR. Are you gonna put a perfect 10 dog out there to do SAR, no. . . How tough is that? You select from strong working litters the dogs that will have the best characteristics to do the job. They'll be there. Prey Drive, Hunt/Track Drive, etc. . . . And in training you never work for aggression or "fight", you discourage it. Not that tuff'.

I think you guys are getting caught up in some of the other threads about bite dogs and are confused about what a dangerous dog is and isn't. If I'm wrong just call me a jackass and I'll take it back. But am I wrong?

Hey van..
I agree 100%!!!! Probably 90% of the dog's I've seen at SAR seminars should stay home by the fire and rest. When you tell the people that, they think you're insulting their child and don't want to hear it. Get the right tools and attitude for the job or don't do it. I don't care if it's a Mutt you found at the pound so long as it does the work.
JMO

THANK YOU! I was outnumbered there for a bit Josh.

I have no problem with any specific dog/breed/mutt, but he better bring it or stay in the doghouse. Same with Joe "weekend warrior" Average.

But am I wrong?

No.

I would like to add the dog is only as dangerous as what is on the other end of the leash.

Suspicion is necessary in a good PP dog. By that I don't mean the dog sees everyone as a threat 100% of the time, but the dog should be watching you and people you interact with. If I am standing at the ATM I want my dog to watch anyone that comes up behind me. If someone comes too close I do not see a warning bark as a bad thing. Maybe I am wrong here, but I prefer to let people know when they are allowed to pet my dog and not. Some people will disagree with me, and that is ok with me.

I'm with you on this one too, Vancamp! I know there's lots of serious folks out there training SAR, God love 'em. But for every serious trainer, there's 10 weekend warriors who go play in the woods and call their dogs SAR trained.

Anyone ever read "Working Dogs" by Humphrey? Every single pup produced by this GSD breeding project was placed into service; they evaluated each dog's strengths and weaknesses at adulthood and placed it in the field that best suited it abilities: herding, police, guide dog, tracking, military (courier and wire running) (we're talking 1930's and '40's here). It has an excellent, excellent discussion of the characteristics needed for each field of work - what is desireable and what was not, and how they chose their breeding stock to select for specific traits in breeding (tho his breeding recommendations are, in some cases, outdated). Awesome book.

(Ok Vancamp, your turn! I'll butt out! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> )

GSDSAR wrote:"I hope that you are not insinuating that finding a lost child in the woods is any less important to that kids parents than than to those waiting for news of loved ones lost in earthqaukes and rubble piles."

Where did I say that? I don't like it when people use words like insinuating. I didn't, and don't, make any distinction between disciplines. That was stupid.

First off, I'd like to say that you really can't be a "Weekend Warrior" (how do you define a "Weekend Warrior" anyway??? MOst SAR volunteers have jobs and families...when else are they supposed to train???) and make it to certification. Getting yourself and your dog certified to do SAR takes much more than that. And, even if maybe you started out with a nice pet, and thought "He'd make a great SAR dog, and I think it would be a cool thing to do with my dog, and a great way to serve my community", that does not mean you cannot become a capable and competent SAR dog handler, and it does not mean that your dog doesn't have what it takes. Yes, there are lots of people out there like that, who don't have what it takes, and whose dog has no desire to work, but they don't make it to certification, assuming that your state has any certification standards. Just my .02. When you make sweeping generalizations about SAR, you're putting down the good ones along with all the not-so-good ones; of course people are going to be insulted!!!! Remember that this is volunteer work, nobody gets paid to do this. You're either in it to be of service, or you're in it for ego gratification. Every single person I have met who is in it, is in it for the former. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Van- I am sorry if my reply offended you when I stated what I believed you were implying- If I was wrong then I am sorry- the reason I believed that is what you were saying is based on the "Now if you are going to be working in Disaster Rescue, Real SAR" I took that to mean that any other type of SAR is not real SAR. This is what I was refering to. I apoligize If I read to much into it. I do believe the basics of what you are saying and believe that you need certain traits to do this type of work. In my unit we get alot of people come out with their couch potatoes and want them to do SAR work cause they like to play ball. We weed them out pretty quick. In a good unit you have to. One weak dog can make a bad impression on a police agency and prevent further calls, on that token one excessivly sharp dog can do the same.

I am also sure that some people involved in SAR are Weekend Warriors, but I can assure you that a well trained team not only trains on the weekends but many days after work. I come home from work and am either endurance training my dog, working obedience , cadaver, or bribing friends and family to hide in the woods as victims. My dog gets 1 maybe 2 if I am real lazy, days of complete rest, and even then she is trying to bug me into doing something.

This is only my 3rd post and I certainly did not want to come in like a raging lunatic but when you lump together a large amount of, what I consider, dedicated volunteers, and put down their entire work , well I get a little pissy.

OK, took the dog out for a walk, had time to cool off. I'm sure that there are those out there in the SAR K9 realm who fit the less-than-complimentary descriptions that have been made here, though I personally have not met them. That being said, I don't think it's helpful to focus on them. If they can't do the work, then they will not last long. Period. I'd like to see less negative blanket statements, and more positive, useful information related to SAR K9 work.

Again, off topic....just wanted to say that, though.