The section where they explain drop ears,spotted coats,barking, etc.is really fasinating. I all came from breeding for one trait, a less fearful fox for the fur market.
Chuck F.
I have a perfectly good reason for that miscount.
I didn't take my shoes off. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

If I'm not mistaken I've heard dingos were all stray like dogs that over time bred together and basically became one breed. Has anyone else heard this, and is it true?

It seems they display alittle of both species, one minute they appear to behave more like dogs, the next minute then they're described it seems like they're like wolves. That's an interesting question on them and African dogs.

It's my understanding that dingoes are believed to have been introduced to Australia by migrating humans some 5,000 years ago. They're believed to be a wild form of canis familiaris. That means, probably, that they developed from the "village dog" (proto dog) into a separate species. They don't display wolf pack behavior, from what I understand; rather, they can be solitary, part of a mated pair, or family unit, but not a true "pack", in the sense that wolves are. For one thing, they have no need to take down large game, as they live easily on small rodents and insects, so have no need for cooperative hunting. For another, the mother and father care for the offspring, but there is no pack that participates in the care of the offspring; unlike wolves, where the entire pack particapates in the care of the offspring. Those are two key differences.

The Coppingers claim that dingoes cannot be truly domesticated; that once they reach sexual maturity, they're outta there. Therefore, they are truly a wild dog, not domestic.

Just a few things re this thread that came to my mind. I saw a TV program recently that claimed that wolf and domestic canine DNA is indistinguishable.Anyone have insight on this?

Dingos bitches only cycle once a year, they dont bark. They are sandy kind of collor but are darker in the high country.They will cross breed with domestic dogs gone feral. Dingos regulalrly kill kangaroos and will kill calves. A pair killed and partially ate a boy in Queensland last year. They howl at night, I havent heard wolves howl but dingos I have and they sound like wolves Ive heard on documentaries. I understand dingos are related to pariah dogs in india and simialr types that live in south east asia and indonesia.People do keep them for pets here. Apparently they are ok. In rural areas they are shot on sight.

A guy up the road has about 20 stock dogs, mostly kelpie types. When they breed and have litters of pups all the dogs bring home meat and vomit it up for the puppies just like wolves. This guy is too tight arsed to buy dog food so when a cow dies he cuts it open with a axe and every few days hell take the dogs there and they gorge thmesleves. When they get home the pups lick their faces and the dogs vomit up food for them. Not just the mother either but all of them do it. These dog will kill other dogs if they come onto their property. I gave this guy a border collar speyed bitch, she was there for 18 months and these dogs never accepted her. Eventually a cow kicked her and she died so that solved that. The bitches whelp their pups under this guys house. So these wild behaviours are still strong in domestic dogs.

Interesting. It sounds as if Dingos may be more closely related to wolves than to domestic dogs.

The dogs that belong to the guy up the road have probably learned their pack behavior from having been taught it during their critical period, if the Coppingers are correct in their theories. The idea is that when you remove a dog pup from the litter and keep it as a housepet, it never learns pack behavior.

Pack behavior and pack instincts would have to be considered 2 different things.

Mmmmm, not exactly.....I'm not sure how to put it. I think it's like the difference between being a pack animal, and being a social animal. Wolves are pack oriented, while dogs are social.

I am really curious to know what take the Coppingers would have on the example that Brendan gave. Generally, they're speaking in broader terms of overall populations, natural selection, and human intervention. They do use plenty of specific examples, but I haven't seen anything on the level of what Brendan is talking about. Maybe I'll have some more thoughts when I have read the entire book.

The only thing that I can think of right now is that this is an example of a small, localized population, that, through environmental demands, has reverted to some older behaviors. For example, the "village dog" (what Van Camp is referring to as the "proto dog") developed feeding on the wastes of humans, when that niche opened up due to humans settling down in permanent villages and creating a reliable food supply. The dogs in Brendan's example are isolated in an area where they may not have access to a reliable supply of human waste, and are forced to revert to packlike behaviors as a result of this environmental factor. The "village dog" has no need to regurgitate food for another dog's offspring, because the offspring are able to forage for themselves at an early age, since the food supply is plentiful, and does not involve hunting, but rather, scavenging. The mother can take her pups TO the food source, rather than bringing it back to them. I don't know if I'm explaining it very well.

Like I said earlier, I need to pick that book up. Sounds like interesting stuff.

Some of my husky bitches have been regurgitators
and I even had one male that the puppies would sucker into ralphing up a free meal for them.
If you liked the "Dogs" book you would probably like "The Truth About Dogs" by Stephen Budiansky.
I put a review about it earlier under book reviews. Like many of the other newer books about dog origins it poses some interesting ideas.
I think people should remember that domestication does not neccessarily mean pampered house pet and that until pretty recently in human history dogs had to survive pretty harsh condition and fend for themselves. If you have to survive in near to the wild conditions you are going to retain the characteristics that will keep you around and they might be characterisics held in common but not neccessarily descended from wolves.
My Dad told me at the time he was stationed in Northern Saskatchewan with the RCMP in the 40's that is was common practice to put sled dogs on an island in a lake for the summer and they had to fend for themselves until they were picked up in the fall. People who were a bit soft might occassionally feed them but it was fend for yourself generally. Interesting stuff and I sure want to get the Coppinger book. I have one of their others "The World of Sled Dogs" - which is a good one, too. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />