but would you want the kid itself being the one to train the dog? no one's arguing that a high drive dog can't be with kids, but a high drive dog being trained entirely by the kid isn't a good idea...

Peter, did you even take the time to read Brigita's post? There is a huge difference between having kids and getting a dog vs. getting a dog FOR the kids. If you don't understand that then maybe, just maybe, you need to quit selling dogs? I can't tell you how many times it NEVER works out when the dog is specifically for the kids. The dog doesn't even have a chance. Same thing as a 10 year old raising a baby, just won't work out.

I should have been a little faster answering the age question, 12. Now to answer some of your questions. My daughter has been raised with dogs from birth, she respects them and likwe all of you she is learning to train. I am always amazed at some of the self proclamed experts on this board whom continue to be negative about everything they can. My daughter interacts with my GSD on a daily basis that's how you learn. If there is anyone on this board who just awoke one morning and knew every damn thing there is to know let me know who you are. I believe that is why we all join clubs , buy books and yes Eds videos to learn. Do some research on children and you'll probably find out they learn a hell of a lot faster than most of us. I didn't post the original message for debate but to find a reputable breeder who could give me direction in a good starter pup. I don't need advice to go buy some crazy neurotic dog. I posted for a female pup. Read the damn post. For those of you that were helpful thanks. I have a lead on what seems to be promising.

I've thought about this a little more and I'm puzzled, what is the magic number, 12, 16, 18 at what age does the dog know the difference between an adult and a child. I don't know about others but see nothing wrong with a 12 year old raising and training a dog in Schutzhund or anything else as far as that goes. Had some of us started at this age we might be a little smarter.
We're talking about a 12 year old with a young dog learning the sport and how to train. Peter you make perfect sense, any dog in my house is mine also. I am there to monitor and correct this dogs behavior just as I do now. If some of you don't want your children enjoying the sport with you fine but don't be so fast to try criticize others who are doing so responsibly.

I don't think there is a magic age for the dog, there is a magic age for a child though. As long as the little girl can handle an adult Malinois physically and you take care to select the right dog. . .I don't see any problem at all.

More power to you Norman, more young people should be interested in working dogs.


I started at around that age with my first working GSD female.


Good luck!

Another suggestion would be to look at the possibility of an older titled dog. I know Bernhard mentioned that he gave his son one of the older females so that it starts off as a good experience with the sport. Maybe a female that is being retired from breeding or can't be bred? That will still give your girl several years of handling and learning before needing to start training a new dog.

So far as 12 yr old handling- I think a lot of people assumed she was younger. I know when I was 12 I handled much larger animals day in and day out (horses- cows) but I was ready for that responsibility.

An older dog is a MUCH better idea. You could talk to a rescue. They might be willing to adopt with the understanding that you are the primary caregiver (make sure the dog is fed and walked and taken to the vet) and the daughter would do the training.

As to age, it depends on how much you expect your daughter to do. Just train, do all care (walking, grooming, bathing, etc.), pay for some/all of the costs and do all care, etc. Honestly I think that a child should be old enough to take on some other responsibility (job, caring for one of your dogs, etc.) before getting a dog. The age will vary depending on how much you expect from the kid. I worked for a vet for 2 years before getting my first dog. A dog should never be a first major responsibility like most people do with their kids.

Give me a break.....nobody meant anything negative about asking a few pertinent questions. Two of my daughters were riding barrel horses at the ages of 6yrs and 8yrs. of age. With any animal for kids age is a major consideration. Some Mals can be a little hard to handle for first time handlers. I found that a solid well- trained horse worked best for my girls and although none of my daughters were in dog sports, I have a feeling it is the same. An older dog that can help your daughter will give her a better feeling of self-confidence.

Good luck on your endeavor,
Debbie

>>I've thought about this a little more and I'm puzzled, what is the magic number, 12, 16, 18 at what age does the dog know the difference between an adult and a child.

It's not about magic numbers and how the DOG sees it...it's about how the CHILD sees it...it's about a child being a child and the maturity it takes to make responsible decisions in a given situation. It has nothing to do with neurotic dogs...and has everything to do with the maturity (wisdom comes with age)to make wise decisions and an understanding of drives, the breed, and the program.

CONSCIENTIOUS breeders have a MORAL and LEGAL obligation to the new owner(s) and to the dog/pup they've created/produced AND sold. Their responsibility doesn't end when the pup leaves their kennel and money exchanges hands...at least it SHOULDN'T.

The fact that you think only neurotic dogs inflict injury or are a risk...couldn't be farther from the truth; nor that a 'female' is a 'safe' bet...When you talk about drive; it has nothing to do with gender...When you consider how common it is for a young pup/dog to transfer aggression (unintentionally) when agitated simply out of excitement and frustration is hardly a matter of neurosis or instability...

A biting/bite trained dog is no different than a loaded gun. In the right (mature and responsible) hands; it does no damage and is not a liability; but I certainly wouldn't give my 12 year old a gun and expect him to have the maturity of an adult nor the responsibility it takes to own and handle one.

Interacting and living with dogs is entirely different from handling and working a high drive dog trained to bite. Not to mention the legal ramification for the club should anything happen to a minor.

Yes children not unlike puppies learn faster than adults BUT they don't have the maturity to make 'right decisions' or to react appropriately
in many situations. That's why they have adults to guide them and teach them. That's why we don't have 12 year olds driving cars or able to buy liquor or vote or out buying a gun or admitted to a restricted movie...

In any bite training there is risk involved...not only to 'your daughter' but also to other members including the helper/decoy.

I don't think anyone intentionally wished to debate this thread. A simple question was asked...NOT for the safety of the dog BUT for YOUR child's.

Furthermore, just because you would 'monitor and correct' the dog's behavior doesn't mean the dog is going to respect nor do your daughter's bidding. The handler is the one who should correct and monitor. Obviously if you feel you need to be the one to do it then perhaps you're also stating and recognizing that she is a child and perhaps not mature nor strong enough to do so herself...Just something to think about.

If your adamant about your 12 year old taking on this type of responsibility and risk then I would also suggest a sport mentality type adult and lean towards a different breed.

JMHO

Brigita does have a point. Any Malinois worth a spit is going to be one of the more difficult animals to handle and train.