Pat I know that was GP info but I have to ask how many of the 16 where trained to protect. I think you said 1 the female. The male is just a Civil dog that knows how to protect, he is rare indeed but their out there.

I have RottieX that didn't know the first thing about protecting but after we showed her what I wanted she will go after and bite a hidden suspect or helper, she will even attack a full size bite dummy if given the command. Most dogs have to be shown what you want them to do. Sure there are some that just don't have it.

Her inital bite training sessions she would just turn her head from side to side looking like what is this crazy person doing. I was about to give up on her until this Rottie guy told me, praise at the slightest sign. It was on then.

I'm just saying that sometimes you have to dig deeper with some dogs and people, to bring out whats there.

That 9yr old is speical. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

i guess my reason for sharing the info was just to show what works for us. we are happy with it. this is just our personal preference, but we like the dogs with the natural instinct to protect mainly because it shows reasoning on their part and the ability to discern the difference between friend and foe. we love the breed and will always have a few gsd underfoot and every now and then we will get lucky and get a protection dog to boot. i will just add this in praise of these two fabulous dogs: neither of them had any regard for their own safty when they felt their home and family was threatened. once it actually was and she performed terrifically. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

The "General Public" for the most part, do not want a dog that they have to put in hours of training with them. Most people want a dog that will bark when strangers come to the house, and put on a good show. In truth this will deter the common criminal from entering a property to commit a crime. The vast majority of people do not need a dog that has formal training. There are some people that do, and normally these are people that face a specific threat, a stalker, a business person, a person that lives in a violent area where rapes and other violent crimes happen alot, in that case these (most) want a dog that will bark when a stranger comes around thier home, be able to walk in public without attacking everyone but be ready to perform when needed, and be able to engage if needed. But the average Joe does not need, nor really wants that type of dog. The average Joe expects that if there is a stranger lurking in the bush the dog will bark at them. When you look at the population at large, it is only a small percentage that really needs a dog that has alot of bite training behind them.

Sorry Orv,

Have to disagree...I think the general public can handle much more dog than you think. People with any sense or dog knowledge know what they have...they either manage the dog quite well or get afraid and get rid of the dog. I don't think you have to be a professional trainer to handle a rank dog...you just have to be willing to be as rank and tough as the dog. And the rest of the population can't understand why "you want a dog that acts that way".

Trainers also have the responsibility of putting the right dog with the right person.

first off the term "general public" is not a term of endearment.

Next, after working with the 'general public' seeing on average 100 dogs/wk. One thing I can just about guarantee is the 'general public' can not handle a protection dog.

Yes, Cindy, there are dogs that are PP w/o rank issues. But, if we are talking in terms of generalities, which I think we are. Then no.

As far as the general public knowing what they have, and get afraid...I wish it was that easy. Most people have their cute little cuddly dog, that would never hurt anyone.

My favorite example was a Malamute. The dog was 15 months old. She called him her 'puppy wuppy'. He went through my 2 week boot camp. Most dogs come in thinking they are all that, and we are able to teach them they are not all that. Puppy wuppy was all that. The most dominant rank dog, I have ever encountered. The last day at boot camp he went after me. Down to the ground we went. I ended up having him in a leg scissors. Kennel attendant had the hose to distract. Anyway, when I went to talk to the owner...she said I was making it up, and puppy wuppy would never hurt anyone. I told her she needed to sell the dog because she wouldn't be able to handle it. She responded "You must think I am a single woman. When my husband gets out of jail he will teach this dog who is boss." Which happened to be right around the time the dog turned 2. You can only imagine what happened next.

Anyway, that is only but one story of how owners feel about 'their' dog. Giving one that is trained to bite...not a good idea.

I have also had a guy in with a APBT...very nice looking dog. I walked up and said nice Pit Bull. He immediately puts his finger to his mouth and says SHHHHH. I asked why? He says he doesn't want the dog to know what he is.

I have had a guy come in with a WGSD. Wanted trained for Arson. I said ok. He tells me, he heard you should train the search commands in one language and the rest of the commands in English. I said if you want. He then asks "Can a dog really learn two languages?"

I could write a book on the 'general public' and dogs. Would be pretty funny.

Todd that was pretty funny and I see why you say that "general public" is not a term of endearment".

Puupy Wuppy he never acted dominate toward the female owner, but bite Con a new one. I hope he wasn't destroyed. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Learn two languages, and the don't want the dog to know what he is, how funny. And ignorant.

I can't wait for the book then the movie!!!
Maybe you are the next Stephen King! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I agree with Orville and Todd,

JQP, could not, should not, would not be able to handle a drop-dead-serious protection dog.

and to clarify, by in large, nobody on this board would likely qualify as JQP with regards to dogs. So to say that you could or couldn't is irrelevant.

To answer the OP's question: I am not sure what is meant by what the General Public "expects".. do you mean what the uneducated think "our" dogs do, or what they would want if they were buying a PP dog?

Go Debbie, good explanation of what I support and believe to – A dog working under control

Todd tell me what the two week “Boot” camp involves, if it is what I suspect, ???? well lets wait and hear?

Well I do not know who trains your “serious” pp’s, but if they turn them in to hell razors then he has the wrong interpretation of a personal protection dog, the training should calm the dog not make him more unpredictable, should make him more disciplined not more aggressive, And I maintain every dog I trained is under control. And so are the schools around here, I have people from 12 years up to 80 – that’s why I find it hard to believe that your PROTECTION dogs are “swooped up red hot biting machines” or am I understanding this consent wrong, as far as I am concerned this type of dog is a “pit” dog a street fighter not a personal protection dog if it is all swooped up, and please the General public have more intellectuals than other groups I …… won’t go their, the reason I used this was to narrow the conversation to exclude the formal trainers ideas of a pp

I would not tell you any malamute story’s today,- good one- but yes my dog can be put with any person, no matter the age or colour and he will work with him and protect him if I tell him to or if he knows my commands. The point- the dog works on command only, and I can let my baby girl come and hang on him while he is biting and he will do nothing, I can call him off, he walks off lead in a international air port – so tell me how do you get to the point where your pp is so wild and has so many issues that it can only be handled by a “serious” handler- think about this statement if true that would seclude the GENERAL public from handling any dog. –yes/no?

Dogs with issues are raised with/ by people with issues – yes/no? – hay Matt

REINIER Geel the comments you have made are very true but what is a personal protection dog,One that bites and will not give up,Wrong,it should be a calm well mannered dog that is safe anywhere and will never bite without either the command or a responsive threat.
There are many of these dogs about and I would trust my life with one but the dog you cannot socialise would worry me as to its reliability.
Paul

We all have seen the 'one' dog. I am not talking about a wild and uncontrollable dog. I am talking in generalities. Most of the General Public could not handle a PP dog. You know as well as I do you can have a happy go lucky Golden and put it with the wrong family and someone is going to get hurt. For the GP it is important to have a good match personality wise. How many people hear a lab is a good family dog, they go out and get one from hunting lines and expect it to lay in the house and not do anything? Happens all the time.

If you are talking about a person...a person is smart and will do the proper research. People, now that is a whole other story.

I have a rottie 'Duke'. He is my bud. I let him sleep on my bed. I let him get on the couch and use me as a pillow. He and I have already decided who is alpha. ME! Now, if he went to another house I have no doubt he would be a serious problem for someone. General Public...lol