Civil aggression usually refers to a dog that shows mistrust and aggression against strangers.

Robert

That "civil" thing really had me confused for a bit before. You see some picture of a dog trying to EAT the guy and I'm thinking - "if that is civil what in Gods name do they call snarly ?! " Sorry to go off topic - back to fencing in the huskies.

Civil or "man al la cart". <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I like to keep it simple, "civil" means the dog will bite a man without equipment.

Civil aggression would be aggression directed at the man, not equipment.

Thanks Shepherdgirl, intrepid would describe my dog's ideal nerve.

Clear in the head, is a dog that can focus in drive, and doesn't come appart at the seems. Speaks to a dog's nerves in my opinion.

My 2 1/2 cents. . .again. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

The confusion about *civil* is certainly understandable, the definition is counter intuitive, at best.

I agree w/Van C's posting. *Civil* simply means the dog can cue w/out equipment, which is what distinguishes them from sport dogs. For ex, we want a patrol K9 to be civil, not looking around for a sleeve (tho it's been known to happen . . .) or stick.

Civil has always mean't exactly as Camper said but I will go farther and define it as Civilian Clothed and without the uniform of a suit or sleeve.

Terminology is one of the most mis understood aspects of the dog game and to the new folks coming into dogs can be a problem until they learn the lingo.

Anotherv term hat is very misunderstood is "DRIVE"

JC

Reading the above reminds me of something that has puzzled me since I have beoome acqainted with the training of SchH dogs. Sorry to display my sheer ignorance <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> but I can't help myself. Why is the dog trained to go for the unarmed appendage. In my longlost girlhood, Rinty always went for the gun arm <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> . I understand that of course they are trained to go for the sleeve (be awful hard to get helpers if they weren't I expect) and that it would be difficult for the helper to brandish a stick with a German Shepherd hanging off the same arm. So in a real "situation" is a dog trained as above going to be as effective as they could be. Sorry, if I'm not seeing the obvious. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

makes sense to me - I presume that's a major diff. between sport and real life. though I assume (although I've never had/trained PPD or PSD) that they are trained to bite the first place they can get a hold of and not to worry about the weapon. having an 80lb dog chewing and pulling on your arm would make it extremely difficult, in my mind at least, to try and effectively beat off a dog with your other arm. Also, I've been told/heard that a lot of PPD/PSD dogs prefer leg bites as a more effective way to fight the assailant. while your basic premise makes sense, from the little I know the most effective bite is the one that takes out the bad guy as quickly as possible. hopefully someone who actually knows can shed a little light on your question.

Jerry, we were just getting somewhere, now you gotta bring up definition of DRIVE?

You turkey!lol

I don't know anybody that actively trains to target a weapon hand. It's too easy to move your arm out of the way. I like legs bites and armpits. OUCH. . .they hurt.

I will go along with Camper and Josh. Taking the gun hand is from the movies. What is more often trained is for the dog to take the bad guy in the arm pit area and if the dog hits correct shuts the nervous system down for a moment. If the bad guy has a weapon in his hands the impact and system shut down will generally force whatever is in the hand on the side of the body hit to be released.

We were talking about civil bites so getting back on track with this topic. Civil type training is just that, training.

It would be great if real dogs just appear and work but that is not the reality.

Most real dogs have to be conditioned off the suits and sleeves and re orientated to bite in a civil mode.

Even to the point of proofing your work via the muzzle.

There are lots of dogs that will bite for real but are they with enough clarity of mind to work correct.

Not Likely.

It takes many individual components to make up the complete real working civil dog and even more components within the handlers list of attributes.

How's that Van Camp <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> for getting back on track.

JC