What would you consider a good price for a pup ( 10 - 12 weeks old) from a let'say Sch 2 male, and Sch1 female? One would be let's say import from either German/Belgium or Schezh, and another one from US???

I've talked to different breeders, and all they talk about is Sire is THIS, and DAM is THAT, but that does not necessarily mean that EVERY pup in a litter will turnout as good as let's say parents are.

Originally posted by LEON SHRAIBMAN:
What would you consider a good price for a pup ( 10 - 12 weeks old) from a let'say Sch 2 male, and Sch1 female? One would be let's say import from either German/Belgium or Schezh, and another one from US???

I've talked to different breeders, and all they talk about is Sire is THIS, and DAM is THAT, but that does not necessarily mean that EVERY pup in a litter will turnout as good as let's say parents are. This is off topic. If you would like to discuss pup prices please start a new thread.

Leon - here is my take as a breeder on your post - not every new owner has the skill or knowledge to do justice to the pups they buy. In fact most new owners do not have the skill and knowledge to do the proper foundation training much less the advanced training for the pups they buy. So getting the first or the last pup from a litter is of no consequence. In fact one of my next Leerburg stud dogs (that will be used next year) was the worst male in the litter (it was my litter and I was wrong about the dog but it went to Cindy and she proved me wrong).

I will guarantee you that I can give someone with limited experience the best pup I have ever bred (and I have bred over 300 litters in the past 25 years) - that pup will disappear into obscurity.

Potential buyers should focus on buying a pup with good nerves and good prey drive with a decent pedigree. Then learn how to raise and train a working puppy. As a breeder I see the owners as the biggest problem - not the dogs.

As for price - it's pretty evident that I charge $1800.00 for a puppy. I can honestly say that I would never pay $1800.00 for a puppy. What do people get for that? From my stand point they get the experience that goes with breeding 300 litters. That’s 300 times to screw up. Every litter is a learning experience. If anyone can tell you that they have this work figured out they are bluffing. You NEVER figure it out - you only reduce your chance of errors.

With that said if anyone thinks that buying a puppy from me or anyone else is not a gamble they are crazy. It's a huge gamble. There are a million things that can go wrong and from my point of view 999,975 of them are caused from inexperienced owners.

If money is a consideration you should never buy from someone like myself. It's the old story - if you have to ask the price you can't afford it. There are a lot of good young breeders out there that are selling quality dogs cheaper than I am - the challenge is to find them. Unfortunately some sling such BS about bloodlines and this and that that buyers don't know which way to turn.

 Quote:

Originally posted by Ed Frawley:
Leon - here is my take as a breeder on your post - not every new owner has the skill or knowledge to do justice to the pups they buy. In fact most new owners do not have the skill and knowledge to do the proper foundation training much less the advanced training for the pups they buy. So getting the first or the last pup from a litter is of no consequence. In fact one of my next Leerburg stud dogs (that will be used next year) was the worst male in the litter (it was my litter and I was wrong about the dog but it went to Cindy and she proved me wrong).

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There are many factors that go into raising and training a dog for schutzhund or police at the top levels. I would say that only 3% of people that get pups can do this. Even the people that compete and do well in the sport at the top levels could not take a pup and get it to the level of competing at the top.

A great stud is priceless. I have seen one in the last 6 years. He was bred over 100 times, and had produced good hips, good temperment, great drive, and good enough bone in most of the dogs that he produced. This is rare. Then only a handfull made it to the BSP, and I think one made it to the top 20. While the pup you start off with is a big part, training is what seperates alot of the dogs that are in the top 30 in the big trials, and the ones that are at the bottom, or never even make it.

So when you look at it this way, the price that Departments want to pay, for a young dog that has a solid foundation set; is really not much.

Like Ed said look for a dog that is outgoing, and plays; bloodlines are confusing.

Thanks everyone for some good comments. I guess the consensus is that it will remain challenging to find enough good, started young dogs to meet the demand. Getting a pup through the first year-healthy and with good drives is so time consuming that I doubt there will ever be an over supply of dogs.

Cindy - no breeder in the world should look at a 5 year guaranteed health plan. I know you want to raise service dogs. That translates into a 18 month old health plan.

For a breeder to think in terms of 5 years is unrealistic. Do you know how many stupid things people or departments can do with our dogs? Who said they don't assume responsibility for stupid mistake? Trust me they don't.

There needs to be a line where the responsibility for a live animal moves from the breeder to the owner.

Tis thread is closed