A couple of good questions there, yes he has been petted by other people up until recently, now the people just say hello to the dog when about our neighborhood, but at the dog park he meets hundreds of strangers a week, they all pet him and say hi and play with him, and he does perfectly fine. Our neighbor has always been able to enter our yard with no problem whatsoever to retrieve her puppy who sneaks under the fence to play...my dogs even help her get the puppy back they never try to escape. But if the gardener comes or grandma comes the shepherd wants to bite them. Even in our own kitchen. Even my moms best friend who is over all the time the shepherd has bitten her once on the arm and tried to bite her in the face while in our car and once in the front yard.

When my brother moved he tried to take the dog with him, first day at his new house the dog tried to bite a little girl in the face who had come over to see the dog, she wasn't even in the house or acting up.

So that is what I mean by unpredicatable.

Many people in our family are able to play with him but he gets pretty rough sometimes with the people he doesnt know as well. He knows his limits with me but gets too excited with others. The other day he jumped on my back, which was my fault I was wrestling with the siberian and Ivan wanted to join in.

SO I am not sure what to do, I have to go back to school monday I wont have much time but weekends for him after that.

As I understand it, fear biters will typically bite from behind with no growling or vocalization at all. I do find it hard to believe that he's not showing *some* sign of stress before these instances. It can be very subtle, such as ear carriage, tail carriage, or a slight change in body posture. You might even be able to see a change in facial expression, particularly in the eyes, such as a hardening of expression or dilation of the pupils. It's likely that he closes his mouth right before lunging. Some dogs are so subtle that they can be really hard to read.

I don't think anyone can tell you with any certainty whether this could be corrected or managed, but I can say with certainty that if there is any hope at all, it would take daily practice under controlled circumstances for up to a year or more, that whatever work you do would need to be maintained for the lifetime of the dog, and that medication may or may not be a part of the picture. If you don't have that kind of time or energy (both physical and emotional) or the financial resources to commit, then I do not see any hope for a favorable outcome.

I'm sorry. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I have made an appointmet for this afternoon, its not fair to the dog to keep him locked up all the time when he desperately wants to be part of the family and its not fair to anyone else to adopt him out when I know he will bite someone eventually, even if I told the person I just cannot trust that they will fully understand the seriousness of it. Yes he does usually get a narrowed eye and serious look on his face when he is about to lunge or bite, but I am trying to walk him or talk to someone so I usually dont catch it fast enough.

I am sorry for this dog, and thank you all for your help.

I just came back to add that even if you did put all the work in to try and fix this, there is no guarantee that it will work. Some dogs are just not fixable. I didn't want it to sound like I was saying that if you just worked hard enough, he could change.

Again, I'm sorry.

I’m sorry it had to come to this, Julia. I’m also sorry that your brother left you with the dirty work. He owes you one!

I am really sad for the dog. Plus yesterday I got an email from Von Falconer, they are interested to see the dog. Ivan was a Von Falconer line. Well I suppose it was for the best, it could have just gotten worse and worse.

So then you did put the dog down already?

yes he is gone

plus now my dog, who grew up with Ivan is really depressed. He just wanders the yard and keeps asking to come in then go out again, he checks the dog house each time. Poor guy. He hasn't eaten in a few days now.

I am going to try to have the neighbors pup come over more often to play.