Karmen,

Sounds like you're talking about my young male! He comes to the bitework with strong defense. Though his prey drive is evident it must be nurtured and brought out. Thus, we keep our focus on prey. No hackles, but some growling. He's always at the end of the leash, and actually shows less stress when free on a bite, pulling against the grip raises his stress. I am thinking as I type *G* But with the helper going away from him he grips hard, calm and quietly. So this is the plan for our work. I've been told he's a good dog, go slow, and I'm hoping time and letting the dog dictate the training will develop his power. We've seen dramatic improvement over the past several months. He was 2 in Aug., so still a young guy with alot going on. But even if he doesn't make it in the sport, he'll never leave our home. I don't think you should quit training with your dog...you know good training continues to build confidence. Just my feelings. I got a lot of good feedback from Ann Kent, and gained confidence in my dog's potential from her. Good luck with your dog.

Sue

How should this fight drive be responded to by the decoy in this type of dog? And, how does this response by the decoy help teach the dog to hold itself in fight drive?

This may be the most difficult question to answer with words. It is as much a feel and attitude as anything. The success the dog receives in fight drive can be simply the giving up of the field of combat by the decoy, or a good challenge by the decoy who ultimatly looses the fight. To compare and contrast would be the decoy who responds by leaping backwards athletically and swinging the dog about as he spins and whirls allowing the dog to draw the arm from high to low position vs. the decoy who raises the stick grimaces in a challenging manner or even growls at the dog, meeting the dogs challenge initially with equivilant strength then showing signs of submission. The later being more subtle but much more effective. Have you ever wondered why some of the best dog trainers appear to not be working as hard as many newcomers? It is because the intensity comes from the strength of their body language not their rabbit like antics.

I feel the need to point out something in this thread.
The title of the thread is solid nerves or sharpness?
Solid nerved dogs can be sharp. these are not flip sides of the same coin. Do not confuse weak nerves with sharpness although is is commonly seen it is not that the character traits of sharpness means poor nerves. In fact, sharpness is a character trait that the german police have come right out and said is lacking in the GSD currently being bred in Germany.

Kevin:

Your post described my dogs to a tee especially Rabiat which I would guess you have worked yourself with Ed. Unfortunately the reality is that I will not have helper work of your quality so much of your fears will come true. But at least I can keep some of the more serious ones in check from your informative posts. The most informative part of your post was the distinction of weak nerves and sharpness. I always thought that solid nerves meant it took a lot for a dog to perseve a threat. Which to me is the opposite of sharpness. Let me reread your post a few times and maybe your comment will sink in better.

Vince,
Nerves v sharpness, you need to factor in *threshold*. A sharp dog just has a lower threshold.

Joy:

I thought I was by the word solid. Solid to me means higher threshold. Sharp is a lower threshold. So how can you have both?

Threshold and nerve strength are not synonymous, but they are close. It is tricky stuff. A solid dog w/a lower threshold won't show an *overreaction* to the perceived threat and what I think separates the wheat from the chaff is the individual dog's ability to *perceive* correctly, ie the screwy byb ambred GSD who growls, backs up and hackels at an invited guest, that really is weak nerves b/c the dog couldn't read the situation correctly and way overreacted. A dog w/good nerves would be more inclined to keep an eye on the visitor, but not overreact to someone you let in. Does that make it even more confusing? A sharp dog w/good nerves will perceive the environment accurately b/c he's not spooking over everything, and when he reacts, it will be w/sufficient force rather than the ambiguous barking and backing up, etc that you get w/spooks.
Max talked about this w/GSDs, it's such a tough balance to get right b/c the GSD should be extraordinarily tuned in to the environment to be the right kind of protector, yet at the same time, he should never be a spook or overreactor.

I agree with Joy on this one. I would add that territoriality figures in on this also. If the dog has a large territory staked out as his they will seem "sharper" than a dog that claims a smaller territory. The dog will alert when they percieve their territory is being invaded, this will often increase as the penetration increases. As an example, my Giant sees the entire cul de sac we live on as his. If someone comes into the cul de sac he alerts, and this increases the closer the person comes towards the door. In the Back yard he only claims the alley behind the house and the back yard. If someone is in the alley behind the house he alerts until they pass the border of our yard. He doesn't care much if they are in the neighbors yard on the other side of the alley. Part of this is controled by the area he has access to. Once he gets to a side fence he sees the person as leavng his territory. It can get to be a real pain, especially when the kids play in the street in the cul de sac. If I go out and am social with the person and he sees that I accept the person he calms down again.

“A sharp dog w/good nerves will perceive the environment accurately b/c he's not spooking over everything, and when he reacts, it will be w/sufficient force rather than the ambiguous barking and backing up, etc that you get w/spooks.”

To me this describes a dog with good nerves that is not sharp.


“If the dog has a large territory staked out as his they will seem "sharper" than a dog that claims a smaller territory.”

This to me is Guard drive not sharpness.


Sorry guys I’m not trying to be difficult but I’m having trouble agreeing with you all.

OK Vince,

Define "sharp". To me it has to do with the level of stimulus required to elicit a response. I think part of the problem is that so many things interact it is hard to seperate out the cause of the behavior.