Van Camp, I already know your position on show lines. I am only trying to get an honest opinion from a knowledgable person which you are...in order to learn.If you would..share your opinion on three more lineages.I would really be grateful. (1) Fritz vom Steffen Haus II (2) Lido von der Residenz (3)Meiko von Fuerstenberg All of the lineages I have inquired about except for the Kirschental is the genetic make-up of a young male and female I have.Within that litter (I did not breed).The males are pet/show quality.Two of the females are somewhere out there..unregistered..which is probably BEST.I picked the very obvious Alpha female.lol I am very impressed with her.Soooo, I am trying to find out How the heck did she come about..out of all these lines. Are there certain lines that the females are much stronger (solid)?? Thankyou Van Camp.

I have a 4 yr. old male from Kirschental lines. His dam is Karl's herding line ( goes back to Fenga, Xissie, Xitta.) His sire is german show out of Eros v.d. Luisenstraße , who is out of Cello. I am told these 2 are actually quite respected still at producing true working dogs.

My guy is worked in the tending herding, although I did a bit of French Ring with him when he was young. He was an excellent grip (needed in the herding as well). He is also trained in TTD and has been assessed by police. They really liked him and said they though he would make a good police dog. Overall a really nice dog. He definately took after the Kirschental lines.

I bred him to a female that goes back to Umsa Bungalow, and some Kirschental (very old lines in both the working Kirschental). I kept a female and she is phenominal. Again, I am working her in herding but she has also been tested in other areas by professionals. She also has 2 brothers that are certified bomb dogs and a sister that is a narcotic dog.

I just bred this dam and she now has a litter out of a male that is out of Rasko von Karthago and he goes back to Umsa, Mike, and Bernd Lierberg. Dam of sire goes back to V Othello von Karthago; V Fero vom Zeuterner Himmelreich; V Fee vom Kirschental; SG Vefa vom Kirschental ; VA Bernd vom Lierberg; V Uwe vom Kirschental; and V Fenga vom Kirschental.

I am looking forward to these pups and what they will do. Two are going for Search and Rescue. One for bomb work.

I REALLY like the Kirschental lines bred to the working lines and this has been more my focus.

Candace, you should find someone that knows their showlines. For the most part, I don't.

Van Camp, I appreciate your honesty.Kind regards

I own a male out of Meiko's lines. He is an awesome work dog. He is the father to one of my current working dogs. I've had two Kirshental females that personally were very pretty, but weren't worth squat to me for working dogs. Very nice pets.

There is an article on The Leerburg website about Manfred Heyne, yet I think written by Ellen Nickelsberg. Anyway if you read through it you will see how Manfred explains whats happened to the herding bloodlines in Germany <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> and how some shepherds like Karl had show and working bloodlines seperate which I found interesting. One bloodline for real work, the other to make money and keep the SV happy ( more money for them :rolleyes: ) that the GSD can still be promoted as a sorta working dog

What I don't understand if anyone may know is why Karl no longer has pure working bloodines????
Or does he not campaign them like the show lines
or something?? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Here's the link


http://www.leerburg.com/manfred.htm

Katie, I read the discussion with Manfred.It hit "home" with me.More people should read it.Thankyou for directing me to that conversation.

Van Camp, I recognize the "split" with Boss.In ref to possibly having a show dog..that can actually work (Elko/Uran). I am working on that.Although Jana was the "Yuck"..showlines.She was Far away from being a show dog.lol I know you understand.The alpha female from her..is even better than her..because some other gene pools were thrown in.Some which have proved to be prepotent..in working even though they were classified as "Show". If you would ,Look at Darby-Dans Werra..and give me your opinion.Thankyou for your time

Does anybody knwo if Karl Fuller has seperate working and show bloodlines anymore???

anyone?? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Is it possible to get a pure working (herding) Kirschental dog or have they all been crossed with showlines???

Karl went to the dark side a long time ago and never looked back. If you want a dog from him, it's going to be showline.