What do you mean you can't go and visit the breeder and look at the puppies now? My breeder invited my to come to her kennel a year before I even wanted to get a puppy?

And as far as getting a 'working' line dog goes, I think you do need to go into this with your eyes completely open. All the finer qualities that make our 'working' GSD's good for police work, bomb finding, drugs, search and rescue, herding, agility, and so on and so on and so on.... do NOT always make them the easiest puppies to raise for a first time dog owner. They are smart enough that they need really focused training. And their energy levels can also be rather amazing.

I know for my Bretta (now 10 months old) I really had to plan my week for her the same way I would a child with school, carpooling, scouts, karate, etc. HOURS a week I would know I'd be spending with my dogs. And my 'normal' social schedule with my human friends is just now starting up again. I miss the good old days I could come home, make some supper, throw some laundry in, and watch tv for the rest of the night! Instead I hit the front door, change my clothes, and then pile the dogs in the car to go off to the park. Either for a few hours of off leash hiking. Or to meet with my friends and their dogs for a hike. Or to go to their homes for the dogs to play in their yard. Or for Home Depot to socialize and do some obedience by the entrance/exit. Or to obedience classes (now agility)............

I am NOT saying you can't do it. But I am saying that all puppies/dogs are a time commitment and a working pup/dog can be even MORE so. The 'a tired puppy is a good puppy' mindset I have always works. But getting that puppy mentally and physically tired, so they are well behaved, is frequently the challenge.

Working with a good breeder, that you explain your lifestyle and needs. Free time. Your ability to walk your dog for miles. Or huge yard to play ball for an hour. All that a breeder needs to know so they can match up a puppy with you (or not). I know if I went to a responsible working line breeder saying I wanted to start up my lines for a breed show dog, they SHOULD say 'see ya' and not take my $$$ because their dogs would not fit my needs.

I can't go see the kennel now simply because I would have to ask for time off from my job and I haven't done that. The breeder has told me to come on over but I can't find a way to do it until February when I pick the dog up. I can only take so much time off, not so much because my job requires me to work a lot but because I am saving for the puppy and if I didn't work a little more I wouldn't be able to pay for her in time. And also, I am hoping to buy a couple of things before the pup is here, a video, whatever equipment goes with the video, and if at all possible get a little ahead so that when the pup is finally here I won't have to work quite so much. It has nothing to do with the breeder not wanting me to come, it's just that I want to take care of the rest of this ahead of time. The pup is quite an expense for me to handle all at one time and I've got to stay here and work so I'll have the time after I get her. And I think that the breeder does her best to find out about the home the pup is going to. She wanted to know about where we live and she was satisfied with the fenced in back yard and we are on 5 acres. Can't remember what if anything else she wanted to know. I did tell her I was new to Schutzhund, had never done it before and she advised me to study up on it and be sure before I decided on the pup and everything. I don't know. Actually, when it comes down to it, I just have a good gut feeling about the kennel and I know I will still have to be careful but I just can't shake the gut feeling that she's a good person and truly wants what is best for the breed and the individual dogs involved. I don't know. Maybe I am gullible <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> Jennie

I'd just take what everyoes telling you, what the kennels projects, and everytihng that has to deal with a new dog or pup. Hopefully you can work a pup into your busy schedule. I assume you have planned this out and are going with what you think is best. But sometimes you are not in a position to do the best thing so you have to rely on those who are in the field that may know.

Just like going to a doctors office and he says you need a procedure. Well, If others who sare doc's say you don't need one and fewer say you do, I say go with statistics. BUy from a kennel that already has superior standards and records that way you have less to owrry about.

I know nothing abou tthe kennles so I can;t and won't say anytyhing about it. Just as they say "haste makes waste", and " you need to do the homework with every possibility".

Hope you get what you re looking for and not what looks appealing or soubnds appealing for that matter....

Good luck..

Jenn wrote: "I know if I went to a responsible working line breeder saying I wanted to start up my lines for a breed show dog, they SHOULD say 'see ya' and not take my $$$ because their dogs would not fit my needs."


Or. . .you select the most dominant beast in the litter and hope it eats them alive.


The less show breeders the better. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Jennie, I apologize if I offended you.Obviously you have done research.Yes , You have to start somewhere.. Your gut feeling about the people may be right. Ask the breeders..How many litters have the particular sire and dam produced? Let them know you are VERY interested in contacting owners of previous pups sold. Also let them know that you desire to know..what titles have been placed on the pups... Jennie, Do they place restrictions of breeding on the pups that they sell? Just be careful..okay?

Thanks! That is a great idea, and an obvious one, but for some reason it never occured to me to contact other owners who had pups from these parents. I am going to do that. I know that the sire has been bred before and probably frequently, at least more than the dam. So here is a question... should I be worried if there are no puppies (or few) from this set of parents (i.e. I don't think the breeder breeds her females very often and so suppose that this particular female has had maybe only one litter of pups...) I should see if it is on the web site how old the female is. If there are previous puppies from this set of parents, at what age should I expect some of them to have titles? Minimum age is about a year and a half for Sch I ??? (Think that is right... could be wrong...) Well, I am going to call right now and see what I can come up with... Nope, not offended. (Doesn't happen very easily) I am so excited because the pictures are up on the web site of the puppies now (though their eyes are still closed in the pics. Can't wait til she posts the new ones! Thanks again for the advice! Jennie

Curious about one thing... 'Do they place restrictions on the pups for breeding?' I don't understand. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? I don't think that they outrightly restrict from breeding the pup ever, but there is a definite negative on breeding a female before age 2. If a female is bred before the age of two years it voids the guarantee that comes with the puppy completely. (shouldn't be done anyway so I had no problem there) But as for not allowing people to breed a dog ever, somehow that doesn't make too much sense to me, for the breeder to try to control that. First off, it strikes me as a little hypocritical... They can do it but don't want anyone else to do it. Second, I would be worried about the quality of the dog they are trying to sell me (I actually avoided kennels for this reason - the complete restriction on breeding the dog) even though I may never breed the dog. If they don't think the dog should be bred then isn't that equivalent to saying 'there should not be any more like this?' If that's the case, I don't want that one! Third, if the concern is about the person buying the puppy (that maybe they will be some kind of a puppy mill or something or will breed irresponsibly) then shouldn't they refuse to sell the puppy to that person in the first place? Really, if you are that concerned with the person buying the puppy, concerned for its care, etc. shouldn't you just find someone else for the puppy? But maybe there is something good about this restriction on breeding that I do not see... Curious. Jennie

 Quote:

Originally posted by Jennie Waschenbecker:
But as for not allowing people to breed a dog ever, somehow that doesn't make too much sense to me, for the breeder to try to control that. First off, it strikes me as a little hypocritical... They can do it but don't want anyone else to do it. Second, I would be worried about the quality of the dog they are trying to sell me (I actually avoided kennels for this reason - the complete restriction on breeding the dog) even though I may never breed the dog. If they don't think the dog should be bred then isn't that equivalent to saying 'there should not be any more like this?'

Sorry, but I feel your line of "reasoning" (??) here is a bit off. First let me say that we send ALL puppies out on limited registration, this is for multiple reasons. One is that it's a "control factor" of sorts in place should the dog be bred under age (in which case we WILL come take the dog...and you don't want me showing up to get the dog!), but we do lift the limited when we get copies of the PASSING OFA & OFEL certificates (or equivalent grading system) on dogs that were sold as and are considered potential breeding quality. If the owner can not register the litter, then they have more incentive to wait until the dog is the proper age and at minimum the hips and elbows have been checked.

However, there are pups in a litter that just aren't breeding quality and those go out with the understanding that the limited registration will never be lifted and we will explain why to the prospective buyers...in that case, they also have to sign a spay/neuter contract. Those are considered "pet quality." Yes, that is indeed saying "there shouldn't be more like this" and it takes a breeder that can be very critical and clinical of what they produce to recognize the good and the bad (and the ho-hum) in what they produce and act accordingly. It's a responsibility thing...responsibility to the breed to see that only the superior dogs are allowed to be bred to continue on with how the breed is supposed to be and not allow people to flood the market with dogs that do not live up to the standard. Those dogs are effectively culled from the gene pool and are not sold as potential breeding stock.

It's a good policy, and it makes good sense, I respect any breeder who will do that and follow up, but I will never purchase a puppy or dog with a limited registration.

Honestly, I want as little interaction with the breeder as possible. I don't want to depend on them being around in 24 months to give me full registration. People drop off the face of the earth in the dog business all the time.

Just offering a consumer perspective.

I too would never buy a dog without full registration, nor would I sell one without full registration. My theory is that if you can not trust the pup's new owner to "do the right thing" you should not sell to them in the first place.
The other way to look at it is that you can't really know if a dog is worth breeding until it has a chance to prove itself. Now the "show" world is a different matter. Show breeders produce lots of frogs for the occasioanl prince. They have to "protect" their name and image amongst their fellow breeders.