Sounds like he's gotten away with much more than he did when he was younger, so he has learned this behavior. He might, however, have some type of nerve disorder(literally, not "bad nerves") which is causing the personality change. I knew of a female German Shepherd (American Lines) that started jumping through windows after the age of 3 years, as well as a personality change from being completely submissive to growling at her owners, and shortly thereafter, was found to have nerve issues that caused her to blind; she had to be put down, sadly. You might check this avenue out with a specialist, as many vets aren't very familiar with diagnosing these types of degenerative disease processes. Just a thought.

As for crating him, I agree with putting his food in there. Don't feed him anywhere else. He will get hungry enough to go in. Once he realizes you are not punishing him in the crate, he will be happy to go in eventually, as he'll consider it his "den". I've seen many dogs with an aversion to crating learn to like being in it, even CHOOSING to go lay in it when given a choice to be out of it.

Just be consistent. That's the best advice. Let him know what the rules are, and then stick with them, come hell or high water. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Good luck!

What justifies a "strong" crate. I saw in a discusion about one bought at Wal-mart that had killed some dogs before. Is there a good brand? Do they tear around in there a lot at first? I tried some searches but didn't come up with "what makes a crate better than others. Thanks in advance.
Doug


Doug - check your PM's.
Will Rambeau
Moderator

How did the dog get killed by the crate? I've never heard of that! Did the dog chew off something?

If someone has any opinions on a good crate, please post them. I want whatever I get to be strong enough, and safe. It was commented to me by people that Mocha is one of the strongest dogs they have come across. Then again, maybe it's because they are referring to his behavior in the crate!

Also, it was mentioned that it seems like Mocha gets away with more now than when he was a puppy. I can't see how that is possible since I'm home all of the time, so making him do things for food, going out, coming in, has been consistent. As has keeping him off of the furniture. The lady who I got him from left him alone for 18 hours a day, and let him run the neighborhood loose. Forgive me if I misunderstood the reply, but I would think he gets away with a lot less since he has been in my care! He was also quite over weight when I first picked him up! He looked like a huge walking barrell, and his owner told me "He's not fat, he just has some sugar in the tank." According to the vet and the naked eye, he was fat.

I have been working with Mocha the best way I knew how. I'm sure there are plenty of mistakes that I made, and I am glad to have found this board. However, I did get him down to a healthy weight, and got him walking on a leash "pleasantly." I felt that was a major accomplishment considering what he was like in the beginning!

Moni

Monique
Midwest Pet Supplies has a good wire crate that comes in sizes large enough for your Lab. They have a website and their crates are found in most pet supply stores.They have a plastic bottom liner that replaced the old rusted metal trays.The non-folding wire crates are a pain in the butt if you neen to move it often, the collapsable wire model moves around the house easier
My rotties are 110lbs/170/bs, their crates are always open and available.I would warn you not to never discipline with crate confinement. I think that is a common mistake made by some. The crate must be a positive experience and is usually most productive when used in a common space in the house where the dog feels a part of things. One incident I had with my crates that you should guard against was when the little guy ran into the crate (on his own) and the crate slid on the tile floor, what a train wreck that turned into. I now have the crates resting on carpet remnants cut to the crate size. I also cut carpet to line the inside.

I have dealt with dominance issues by making the dog leave his crate and watch me (pack leader) go in his crate and have coffee. You all can laugh but it works <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Good Luck
Jerry

Coffee in the crate??? Jerry that is just too funny! Did you have the Sunday paper as well??

Yes definitely put the crate in a carpeted area. I too have seen the trainwreck at my own house....scared the heck out of poor Xena, she was pouncing on her squeaky bear when it happened in the kitchen. Poor wobbledy eared pup.

I want to thank you all for your valuable advice. I am going to check into getting a crate today, and see what is available in my area. I may have to wait until this weekend when I can make a trip to Tucson if I can't find something here.

I also appreciate the link to Ed's Ground Work article. I have A LOT of work ahead of me, but the end result is well worth it. I can't tell you how much this means to me that you all took the time to share your advice and thoughts on my issues. It's more than I have received from any of the dog trainers I questioned before coming to this forum.

I'll keep you updated on how things go!

Monique

Monique
The three things you will need to get your Lab into shape are:
1. The crate
2. The prong collar
3. Ed Frawley
Regards and good luck
Jerry

The MidWest crates that collaps for mobility are held together by long pins in the corners that hold the sides together.

Monica since you said your dog goes berzerk in a crate and bent or destroyed the one at the groomers at petsmart. And since petsmart sells that brand. It is a good bet, that was what they were using. May be something to consider.

If you do decide to go with that brand, style or gage of wire, you might want to use some wire ties or zip ties what ever they are called, to lock it together. They are used primarily by electricians to hold several wires or bunches of wires together. But as a fastener they have many uses. But only use them if your dog won't get to them and chew them they are only plastic and they might swallow them if chewed off !!

But if you dog is that wild in a crate you may want to consider a style of crate such as Leerburgs aluminum crate. May cost a little more but I doubt he will destroy it and bust out.

The Midwest plastic tray will crack ! So if you do go that route do use a thick carpet or dense foam underneath to support the tray as the wire sinks in.And a rubber mat inside, once again only if your dog won't or can't chew it.

The crate 'can't think of the brand name off hand' that was bought from Walmart, A puppy busted it apart and got its head stuck and choked to death. I can't remember the member who posted about it " Sorry who ever you are" has a link in their post to their web site with pictures showing how and why their pup died. It was just recently. So do go through the old post and find out what others have recommended in crates and what they had to say about this topic and also you will find the post with the link for the death crate. Later

I tried to read through all this, but I may have missed this particular question:
Why not a plastic airline crate if you're looking for strength?
I've found that they hold up better long term than metal crates, with the noted exception of the bullet-proof alum. crates that Ed and a few others sell.

Thanks about the info on how the pup died from the crate. I may have to look around in Tucson, then. Here we only have a walmart and two small pet stores that I have never seen dog crates his size in.

I may have to discuss the Leer crate with my husband. I'll have to see what we find in Tucson, because if it seems "flimsy" I may have to forgo that idea and order one.

Monique