I'll agree. It's not a matter of too much freedeom, lack of a bond, etc. Bottom line - the dog is not trained.

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I'll agree. It's not a matter of too much freedeom, lack of a bond, etc. Bottom line - the dog is not trained.

And what Alison said: "Remember those are not HIS toys -they are YOURS and you say when he gets to play. Also, test with a long line. What if he fails the tests? Now what are you going to do to correct him? Chase him... and now you are where you're at today. Anyone disagree?"

Dogs can love the human and not respect him or see him as the pack leader. As Anne V. said, this is good time to start over with the beginning obedience training and getting every step down solid.

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Please say your kidding...

Dogs don't behave because they "love" you or have a good bond. Dogs do stuff based on what motivates them- tugs, toys, distractions, predicting/recieving a correction, food, etc.
- and based on habits learned from these things.
Too much freedom, inconsistency and no way to correct or redirect his attention has led this dog into his "disobedience"- Not becuase the dog doesn't love him or trust his bond with his owner.

I'll disagree.
A handler who cant motivate his dogs without toys and tugs and treats must think again. isnt working alongside his handler not enough for the dog.
Work done with his handler is the ultimate reward, his greatest motivation is working along with you, hearing your sincere praise. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

The statements in the above post reflect a total misunderstanding ofcorrect dog training.

There are only 4 ways to motivate a dog:

1- Food
2- Prey drive (toys and tugs)
3- Praise from the handler
4- Force

There are no other ways - this is not rocket science

The fact is a very very small percentage of dogs (in my opinion 1 %) will work for praise from the handler as the only motivator. So to make the statement that using food and toys in the learning phase is poor training is foolish. Maybe the poster has one of the 1% dogs (I have never owner one - Cindy had one (he Dobe that she took the the Schutzhund nationals in 1990)

I've seen dogs supposedly work for the handler. Person refused to use toys, etc in obedience. Dog would be 10-15 ft behind them doing the routing on their own very lack luster with the owner trying to coax it. Dog didn't care. Might be able to use praise, but not as the only motivator. You have to mix it up.

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The statements in the above post reflect a total misunderstanding ofcorrect dog training.

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I may misunderstood the correct way of dog training by doing things not everybody is approved of, but Chief it doesn't mean you're correct and I'm wrong.
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There are only 4 ways to motivate a dog:

1- Food
2- Prey drive (toys and tugs)
3- Praise from the handler
4- Force

There are no other ways - this is not rocket science

The fact is a very very small percentage of dogs (in my opinion 1 %) will work for praise from the handler as the only motivator. So to make the statement that using food and toys in the learning phase is poor training is foolish. Maybe the poster has one of the 1% dogs (I have never owner one - Cindy had one (he Dobe that she took the the Schutzhund nationals in 1990)

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I did'nt say it is foolish, but I know you'll agree that you don't bribe, trick, or force a friend to motivate him. As you have admitted a sincere praise is enough motivation. I may not misunderstood it after all, it maybe hard but not impossible.
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... I know you'll agree that you don't bribe, trick, or force a friend to motivate him. As you have admitted a sincere praise is enough motivation.
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Mila,
Once again, praise is NOT enough in 99% of the cases, as Ed's and other's posts say. Our dogs are our friends, but they are not humans. You DO bribe, trick, and force a dog to do what we need them to do...since praise is hardly enough. It's called training. These methods would not exsist today, if not tried and true.

It's too bad that anyone somehow would believe that their dogs will behave becuase they love them. That sounds like something a foo-foo pet dog owner would say. Not a DOG TRAINER... or anyone who has actually trained any animal.

I am following Ed's obedience DVDs and I try to train him at least once a day - usually twice. I have read the groundwork article numerous times and we follow that as well.

He does very well in training - his recall is lightning fast. There is no issue about the dog liking his toys more than me. He is obsessed with me and even at 11 months he follows me everywhere.

I have just started to let him off leash in certain, brief situations and he decides he wants to play instead of listen. He has very high food drive and he will work for a tug or a ball as well. Usually, these situations occur when I am not training, I do not have treats, and since we are playing fetch he already has his reward - the ball and since I have let him loose I can not correct him.

It seems like I need to stop giving him this freedom for a while as I continue to work on his obedience. I just thought that since he does so well in the training exercises that he would continue to do so. I probably shouldn't be letting loose anyhow - that goes contrary to the groundwork and basic handling.

I just felt he was doing good so I would start to give him some freedoms. One of the biggest problems is him wanting to play keep away. We used to go to the park and play fetch for a half an hour or so. If I have treats he will usually come back every time. I phased out the treats and now he wants to play keep away once he has retrieved the ball.

This behavior seems to have crossed over into other areas. He loves the backyard and the hose as well and I usually take him back there to play a couple of times a day. Now, given the opportunity he bolts back there and waits to play with the hose.

I probably shouldn't have given him the opportunity to be off leash and disobey, but since he does well in training I though he would be okay and that has started to backfire.

He seems to do great with none to mid-level distractions, but beyond that I have been less successful.

Does anyone else find it hard to set up situations for distraction training? If I go to the park and there are a bunch of people there having a picnic and they have dogs I will do my training next to them and he does great. I do this all the time, but I still feel that if I did it without a long leash he would not obey.

The distraction training I do starts to become very routine and I feel as though it is not enough for him but that it is hard to set up or find situations that would proof him. The best case scenario would be around other loose dogs, but then I can't trust strange loose dogs.

Once again, praise is NOT enough in 99% of the cases, as Ed's and other's posts say.

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Isn't it because 99% of the handlers/trainers uses your accepted correct way to train. And only 1% of the handlers/trainers today believed otherwise.
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It's too bad that anyone somehow would believe that their dogs will behave becuase they love them. That sounds like something a foo-foo pet dog owner would say. Not a DOG TRAINER... or anyone who has actually trained any animal.

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I thought you've accepted the fact that there is 1 in every 100 dogs that can actually do the task without your toys and such. I think it will be harder for you to believe than to find that 1 dog in a hundred.

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It's too bad that anyone somehow would believe that their dogs will behave becuase they love them. That sounds like something a foo-foo pet dog owner would say. Not a DOG TRAINER... or anyone who has actually trained any animal.

Should I understand from this statement, that you believe that dogs have no emotional bonding with owners? And will not show it?