In art, they teach artists to never use just one photo, as the camera sees the world differently than the human eye, and very often the camera lens lies. Instead, we are to look at many different photos of different situations and even other means of observation to truly understand the subject.

Case in point, I'm reminded of the time I had a birthday cake made and I gave a postcard of leaping orcas as a design reference. On the postcard there appeared to be a shadow behind one of the orca's dorsal fin. The chef drew the shadow in as a second dorsal fin. Because of someone's total trust in one photo, I ended up with a mutated whale cake. Still tasted good, though.

Don't get me wrong, photos are great, but they can be used to hide major flaws or even insert flaws that were never really there to begin with.

Having seen this dog, I'm willing to bet that the dog's working character was visible to the judge. . . even though the grip looks like it wasn't great in this photo.


And frankly, kudos to the judge for NOT judging the dog harshly for the grip!!!! (if the grip was actually bad)

It's a mistake to judge the quality of a dog primarilly on his grips. Downfall of the working breed, I'd say.

QUOTE:It's a mistake to judge the quality of a dog primarilly on his grips. Downfall of the working breed, I'd say.

Something I believe as well. Care to join my ringsport revolution?

One thing that I think a lot of people still don't get is that you NEVER get everything in one dog. When you get close, man is it a joy to behold. In judging, whether in Schutzhund,or Belgium ring The bite itself is a portion of the total points for the exercise, and by no means the be all end all. I think that by over emphasizing this deep calm bite crap for so dang long, we have tortured many good dogs who genetically don't have it. Something to think about when you've been working bite development a while and that stupid calm grip thing isn't working out. Many people love wildlife analogys, so here is one for you. Who gets to survive? Wolf that bites and shakes and is willing to get out and bite again? Or the wolf that has a deep calm bite? (how he ever got it I'll never know) My bet is deep calm bite gets kicked to death, which is what I would like to do with Shutzhund, and they're over emphasis on stupidity. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Judging on the photo The dogs grip would struggle to get 15/25 in Belgian ring. And with the number of attacks/bitework he wouldn't make a chance to win.

Greetings

Johan

Why do you presume the other grips were similar? Considering this dog won last year it would be safer to presume the other grips were ok…

OK, first this isn't Belgian Ring.
Second this thread has moved into what points are to be assigned.
Sooo, i think a little lesson on how most judges actually assign points.
They look at the skill being presented, say the long bite. They may keep track of the flaws in the routine but they assign a catagory to the skill first. So, the judge will be looking at the perfroamnce of the given skill and the totality of the protection routine. He/she will decide...just for arguements sake that the skill is just shy of V (96%). So a high SG is awarded...(95% tops). The judge then looks at a neat little chart that assigns the range of the SG score in points for that skill. If at the end of the protection the judge feels that the total performance waaranted a V (96%) or better, the judge will look at placing the dog higher. Lets say the dog got a 95point routine down but the judge liked the total appearance. He/she would go find a point.
Now the reality is that more often than not the opposite is true, the dog got 96 points but the judge just didn't get the feel that the dog held that much power and a 95 SG is handed out. Very very few dogs are true V protection dogs, just look at the BSP scores.
To bury your head into the book and tick off scores on a dog team is a poor way to judge...though some do it that way. Bad for the dogs, bad for the sport.
Ohh, for the ring sport enthusiast that likes to talk about the great gips......99% of the ring dogs would never get a V score....their guard is too awful and in fact too many can't stay focused on the man totally throughout the routine and would cause some die hard schh judges to drop them into the sufficient catagory for courage and hardness!!! Don't use one sport to gauge another...it is a poor practice.

 Quote:

Judging on the photo The dogs grip would struggle to get 15/25 in Belgian ring. And with the number of attacks/bitework he wouldn't make a chance to win.

Greetings

Johan

 Quote:

In art, they teach artists to never use just one photo, as the camera sees the world differently than the human eye, and very often the camera lens lies.

And, as James Audobon famously said: "When the book and the bird disagree, always believe the bird."

I hope this thread continues. Again I am learning important theory that's new to me (a real newbie) and adds enormously to the video-viewing.

I have talked to a friend who just returned from the BSP. He said that this was one of the worse helpers the BSP has had. He and the Germans were very pissed at this guy. He was not consistent and did not work the dogs well. I'm sure more will come out about this guy in the near future (Front half).

I have to admit that I am curious to see some video. That sideways bite to me is helper, helper, helper. I want to see if I am right <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

"I have talked to a friend who just returned from the BSP. He said that this was one of the worse helpers the BSP has had. He and the Germans were very pissed at this guy. He was not consistent and did not work the dogs well. I'm sure more will come out about this guy in the near future (Front half). "

Frankly, I find that a little hard to believe.