Quote: Tracy Collins

When you turned and walked the other way and he LOOKED at you? That was what you wanted, whether you knew it or not. Click and treat that.

Looking at you is the opposite of dragging you down the street.

None of these behaviors happens instantly and perfectly. You shape them. Reward him and yourself for tiny successes, instead of frustrating both of you by expecting too much.

If you KNOW he can't walk with a loose lead, then stop punishing him and yourself for that yet-to-happen breakthrough. Focus on what he does know. Set him up to succeed. He'll learn more, and enjoy spending time with you if you're his cheerleader, not a nag.

You don't need a timetable or a perfect understanding. You're not writing code for a robot. Just build a relationship with this sentient living thing standing in front of you.

P.S. He can't bother the cat if he's on a leash tied to your waist.

That is a great post. I wish I'd written it.



Edit to add:

Including that PS for tethering the dog (to the person).

Edited by Connie Sutherland (10/10/2013 06:20 PM)
Edit reason: eta

Yes agree, well said, Tracy.

Tracy, thank you for this. I will try it out tonight.

What do you mean if I know he can't not pull then stop punishing us both.
So let him pull? I was going to start being consistent making uturns every time he pulls.


I'm a programmer, does it show in how I approach training lol?
I'm sure it does, this is so not my field that I'm uncomfortable without strict rules on how things work.

I had him tethered to me at some point in the house, he still lunged. But you're right, much easier to control him.

I stopped tethering him because it didn't seem like it worked.

As I'm typing this I'm noticing there's a pattern in me quitting when I don't see results right away.

But this just reinforces what I'm saying, I have to believe in a technique to keep doing it for weeks without seeing improvement and that's why all the questions.

But I'm done for now, I have more than enough to go on.

I'd like to add that I think we have a good relationship. I'm not experienced enough to judge though, I will record some stuff when I can and will post.

What I mean is: he doesn't have a 10-minute down stay either. But you know you can't start with that.

He's not going to go from pulling to walking on a loose leash in one "a ha" moment. Break it down into tiny victories. If when he pulls and you turn--and he turns with you--consider that a success. Reward that. Then repeat it 500 times. Then take two steps before you turn.

This isn't about trying different random things once it twice and abandoning them when you don't see immediate success. That's not how it works. It takes consistency and repetition and rewarding even the tiny beginnings of what you want. Then build on it.

Are you walking him with a treat pouch and clicker?

Omg, this makes so much sense once you explain it.

I'm on my way home and then we are going out. I can't wait to try it out.

Yes, I don't leave the house without a treat bag ever. I don't use a clicker, I use my voice.

 Quote: Tracy Collins

If he turns with you--consider that a success. Reward that. Then repeat it 500 times. Then take two steps before you turn.

This isn't about trying different random things once it twice and abandoning them when you don't see immediate success. That's not how it works. It takes consistency and repetition and rewarding even the tiny beginnings of what you want. Then build on it.

What do you mean take 2 steps before you turn.

So every time he pulls I make a uturn. Once he follows me on the uturn I mark and treat.

But take two steps where? There's no guarantee that he won't pull those two steps.

Also, do I reward him for every step he doesn't pull? At what point?

So that means we never walk without him being rewarded for any step he doesn't pull? Ever?



I don't mind doing things for weeks with no result as long as I can be sure there will be a result.
I quit because I don't see enough improvement and assume it's never going to work.

I will do everything consistently for 3 weeks and see what happens.

This has turned out to be one LONG THREAD . And as Connie said, may be I am talking too much theory and not giving practical hints.

Before I help any one train their dog with a clicker , I ask them to practice with an other human being (in capturing free shaping and luring ) , like how Ed Frawley does in the Marker training video.

I think watching the MARKER TRAINING video will be a good place to start. I too am a programmer turned DBA , clicker training is very much like a flowchart , an IF THEN ELSE , PERFORM WHILE , PERFORM UNTIL , PAUSE, STOP kind of a situation .


On a separate note , my Marker training DVD got corrupted , it does not play anymore

 Quote: Natalie Rynda

What do you mean take 2 steps before you turn.

So every time he pulls I make a uturn. Once he follows me on the uturn I mark and treat.

But take two steps where? There's no guarantee that he won't pull those two steps.

Also, do I reward him for every step he doesn't pull? At what point?

So that means we never walk without him being rewarded for any step he doesn't pull? Ever?

Guarantees aren't any part of dog training.

What I'm describing is "crazy walking."

Take the dog to the middle of an open field or parking lot, with no expectation that you're *going* anywhere on this walk.

Then put the dog in your left side and start walking. Pay no attention to whether or not he has good form. We all know he doesn't. That's the point of this.

Every few steps, change directions. Turn right, turn left, turn around. Beat a crazy path all over the field with no predictable pattern.

Eventually, the dog will decide that you are completely insane and unpredictable and are apt to do anything, therefore he'd better pay attention or he'll get plowed over.

Keep up the chatter to the dog as you're doing this, and every time he turns with you, looks at you, or stays by your side, you'll praise him, or treat--but keep walking.

Most of this may be a disaster the first time. So what? There will be accidental moments in there for you to reinforce.

But if YOU are acting like this is a fun game (a dance?) and that what you LOVE is when he's next to you rather than in front, he WILL get it.

Another thing to consider: You cannot *make* your dog not pull on the leash (or do anything else). What you're trying to do is to give him a reason to *choose* the behavior you want instead of what he thinks he prefers. What are you offering him as incentive to make new choices in his life?

Look how much your dog's attitude changes when YOU started having fun and showing your excitement.
Our dogs read us much better then we read them. This is HUGE when training. If you marker is later then your body movement to give a treat then that movement will cancel out the treat.
Training shouldn't be more then a few mins at a time in the beginning. I use the TV commercials when I'm working with a new puppy. Commercial comes on I do a few reps of whatever I'm working on. This keeps the training short and sweet. Even the best dog needs short training sets in the beginning. That keeps the dog from getting bored and the handler from getting frustrated.
Critical!!!!
"IF" you can't break it down like this then just train for 5 mins out of every 20 on your walks and always end on a high note meaning while the dog is still engaged with you and still wanting more. That doesn't mean the dog can do as it pleases because even a walk is an ongoing training just more about basic manners then formal behaviors.
Other dogs;
That's a pet person peeve with me. My dogs learn to "accept" anything I expose them to. That includes objects, other people, other dogs and any situation. It does not mean the can play with those objects, other people, other dogs or any situation.
It DOES sound like your starting to connect the dots!