Beause of concerns about the point raise I hsve discussed th matter with a good friend who brought a friend of his,a gentlerman that was a dog hndler in the army and now for the police.He did meet my dogs at homre about a year ago and his main comments were that they were 4 big soppy idiots and evnen dispite their size they would be no match for either of his working GSD's .Hopefully he will b coming to see me this weekend and give me his asessment as someone who is paid to do the job of training dogs for all types of police work,not just bite/protection but drug work etc .I will post honestly his observations.

I am also a prior Army dog handler, and currently train detection dogs for the military.

I am glad you are getting some advice from someone you trust.

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He did meet my dogs at homre about a year ago and his main comments were that they were 4 big soppy idiots and evnen dispite their size they would be no match for either of his working GSD's .

A little context would help with this statement Andrew. If he meant it the way you typed it, Idiot does enter the discussion.

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He did meet my dogs at homre about a year ago and his main comments were that they were 4 big soppy idiots and evnen dispite their size they would be no match for either of his working GSD's .

That statement alone would motivate me to elevate my standards. You love your dogs and breed. Surely you don't want this to be the opinion of outsiders?

Is this why you seem to feel there is a rift between working dog owners and other owners? I have owned dogs for 35 years, but only recently exposed myself to working dogs, their owners, trainers, handlers, and helpers. That did not change my view of companion dogs or working dogs; rather, it broadened my horizons immensely, and bridged some gaps in my own psychology and methodology.

still not gonna acknowledge my post eh andy ?

I believe that every dog is an individual, and they all need to be trained individually. I simply add tools to my trainers toolbox when I come across something new to me, so I incorporate techniques that are irregular for working dog handlers with success because I have encountered the same problem before, but in a different environment, and the same for pet owners problems that can be addressed with techniques normally seen in working dog training.

I think the rift happens because there is such a separation in the end goal of training. Most pet owners consider it a success if their dog will SIT and DOWN with relative regularity. Working dog handlers are operating in an environment where these simple things are a given, and their focus is on much more complex behaviors.

A home cook thinks pot roast that is tender and somewhat flavorful is a success, where a chef strives for subtleties that the home cook doesn't have the knowledge to understand, but will enjoy none the less.

Pet owners are amazed when they see working dogs operate with their handlers. Most of the time they had no idea what type of relationship a dog and person can have. The can see the rewarding nature of the relationship that works in both directions. I take Marshall out of the truck around a group of soldiers and they can't believe how we work together. I never put a leash on him, and rarely give him any command other than to get his attention, followed by a tip of my head, or flick of my hand. We understand each other in ways that pet owners rarely get to realize because they don't really DO anything with their dogs. They don't have to work out the complex communication that happens with a working dog. If their dog doesn't pull on a leash, bark at inopportune times, or pose any real problems in the house, they are happy.

I am sure that you can see it with Sadie. Through your success in training challenges, I would say that you have built a relationship with her that you wouldn't have understood before you went through this training with her. I would guess that you understand her in ways that you never tried with your previous dogs.

 Quote: steve strom

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He did meet my dogs at homre about a year ago and his main comments were that they were 4 big soppy idiots and evnen dispite their size they would be no match for either of his working GSD's .

A little context would help with this statement Andrew. If he meant it the way you typed it, Idiot does enter the discussion.

I'm a wee bit confused, did this chap mean by this statement, that even though the Neo's are bigger than his dogs, that his GSD's could still 'take them'?

andrew , this board is less interested with other peoples' observations about your dogs than we are about what training YOU are undertaking to get your dogs level of training to where you want them to be . . .

David;

You are very right. My working line GSD is the best behaved housedog I've ever owned. She wants to be more obedient because she seems to understand that it is better for our relationship than constant conflict. In return, I afford her more opportunities to be a dog than I've allowed previous pet dogs because I feel that, through her OB training, I can trust her more.
Even so, I still have to be wary. She doesn't know how intimidating she can be to strangers, so she will rush to greet them, scaring them more. I also never know when another dog will pop up out of nowhere, and she reacts quicker than I ever could.

Another benefit that we get from my exposure to working in protection is that I've learned a lot from peering out of the blind at a dog that is in training. Learning how to use a dog's drives to motivate it makes a huge difference.

I shudder when I think back on all of the drives that I've squashed.

hey guys , i had a small epiphany yesterday . . .

i just noticed that this thread was posted under " dog videos " and it occurred to me that the OP never actually intended that we offer help , advice or commentary on what he was doing with his dogs . he just wanted to show them off , which is fine by me .

for my part andrew , i respectfully retract any of the advice or comments i have offered in this thread and wish you well in your future with your " pack " .

sorry it took 22 pages to figure it out lol . . .