Quote: Duane Hull

What is so amazing about this video? Endless dog tricks. Well, I guess since Carson is off the air, someone's gotta air them. I had to skip to 7:34, which was two parakeets sitting on a dog's nose. Some trick, but that's all the video was; 8 minutes of useless dog tricks (unless you're in a circus sideshow). I'll admit, this particular dog has a strong aptitude, and knows a lot of tricks to impress kids, but I did not see one thing in this video that proves that anyone can teach or enforce obedience. I fail to see how this illustrates any of the points that this behaviorist is trying to sell you on. I might not have the time to teach all of those tricks to my dog, but she knows some of them, and could learn the rest.

If I have this right, you called her because, after having it pointed out to you numerous times, you realized from the horse video that your recall was insufficient. Your response from her was that it's a lovely video??!! The horses not running off was because they fed off the balance of your pack?

You two were meant for each other. Make sure you tip her a couple hundred extra pounds when you pay her.

Her comments about the video with the horses was not one influenced by myself and when I have spoken to her since receiving that email,I did explain ,that as much as it may be pleasing from some peoples stand point I explained that what I would like the video to look like was for them to pay more attention to a recall given the same situation.

When doing research on this trainer I came across videos of her around wild wolves

http://youtu.be/-mjUmbklvPg

.I am not saying " dogs are in someway a wolf" but believe one can draw useful aspects from different practiced philosohies.In fact one of the most intelligent takes on this philosophy I have read is :

http://leecharleskelley.com/top10myths/dogsarentlikewolves.html

Yet both views seem to have some relevance to them

 Quote: andrew harris

Tracey I think you will agree ,that having a pack of 4 of any mastiff breed living this way as part of their normal day to day living without ever having any agression issues ,is the exception amongst owners of multiple dogs of this sort of breed, and not the rule.I do however accept that this is not sufficient as a stand alone approach.

Andrew;

Your dogs are related and have been raised together as a pack. They SHOULD readily socialize with each other and be intuitive with each other and their pack leader.

Get to know the stories behind a lot of the frequent posters here and you will realize that there are many that manage packs the size of yours. Their dogs are not related and many aren't even from the same breed or type. Many have family members that aren't dog or human, but fit right in with the pack. There are a lot of people that foster dogs and socialize the fosters into their pack, and do it while maintaining a high level of obedience.
There are many people here that have accomplished what you have or more under similar or more pressing circumstances. They can help you, but you have to let them.

You should read users' posts and learn about the people here. Ask questions. Get involved. This will get you tenfold farther than trying to get ppl to acknowledge your perceived accomplishments, because we have seen and heard it all before.

Collectively, this forum is better than any self-proclaimed behaviorist because we have more than one viewpoint, more than one opinion, and more than one way of doing things. Oh, and in many cases, a lot more experience.

BTW, the best way to get obedience is to have your dogs earn the freedoms that you grant them off-handedly. My dog is the same way in the house as you described your pack, but she earned access to the house because she abides by a very clear set of rules.

 Quote: Duane Hull

 Quote: andrew harris

Tracey I think you will agree ,that having a pack of 4 of any mastiff breed living this way as part of their normal day to day living without ever having any agression issues ,is the exception amongst owners of multiple dogs of this sort of breed, and not the rule.I do however accept that this is not sufficient as a stand alone approach.

Andrew;

Your dogs are related and have been raised together as a pack. They SHOULD readily socialize with each other and be intuitive with each other and their pack leader.

Get to know the stories behind a lot of the frequent posters here and you will realize that there are many that manage packs the size of yours. Their dogs are not related and many aren't even from the same breed or type. Many have family members that aren't dog or human, but fit right in with the pack. There are a lot of people that foster dogs and socialize the fosters into their pack, and do it while maintaining a high level of obedience.
There are many people here that have accomplished what you have or more under similar or more pressing circumstances. They can help you, but you have to let them.

You should read users' posts and learn about the people here. Ask questions. Get involved. This will get you tenfold farther than trying to get ppl to acknowledge your perceived accomplishments, because we have seen and heard it all before.

Collectively, this forum is better than any self-proclaimed behaviorist because we have more than one viewpoint, more than one opinion, and more than one way of doing things. Oh, and in many cases, a lot more experience.

BTW, the best way to get obedience is to have your dogs earn the freedoms that you grant them off-handedly. My dog is the same way in the house as you described your pack, but she earned access to the house because she abides by a very clear set of rules.

I have no doubt what you say is correct in relation to owners of dog packs including those that are not related or even of the same breed.I am sure I have previously posted about my previous pack of 4 dogs which were not related and not all of the same breed and they were the same way as this pack tho I do accept that the fact that the state of my current pack was easier to achieve with them all being related.

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u165/bosscat69/DCP_0006-1.jpg

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u165/bosscat69/DCP_0001.jpg

My point wasn't that people can raise dogs together.

 Quote: Duane Hull

My point wasn't that people can raise dogs together.

I know and had previously aknowledged that achieving harmony as a pack was not sufficient and obedience and control were important too.

MY POST WAS NOT ABOUT ANY OF THAT. Read it again. It wasn't about getting you to do what we say...it was about getting you to join us instead of making a point to us.

Of course I accept that posters here are knowledgeable helpful and experienced which is the sole reason that I have sought the engagement of similar minded professionals local to me that are able to be hands on and and can observe the behaviours in real time and physically show me how to impliment correctly what posters here have advised.

Perhaps if you are really most interested in "pack" management it would be cool to contact someone who manages packs of hounds. I thought that foxhound packs were quite common in England, but perhaps this is just an imaginary idea from TV. Perhaps there is someone local who really knows about how loose dogs are managed best -- it might be something a little different than the ideas folks on here have -- since on here most people are interested in each individual dog, as opposed to a "pack".

I agree with Betty. There are some really interesting strategies used to manage a pack. I've seen mushers with 20 or more huskies that they just let run loose to sniff around and pee etc., in a parking lot at a busy race site. While I have seen a few issues like a loose dog chasing a race team, most of the time there are no issues. And these dogs are certainly NOT obedience trained.

I think the management of these sled dog packs (and maybe hound packs as well) makes use of the dog's natural drives and respect for their human. There is something almost magical about it when you see a real "dog man" (or woman) working with a pack. I wish I could figure out the magic touch for my pack. Really cool to see. It's all in the dogs wanting to follow the person and please them and stay close exclusive to anything else. But it is a natural thing. No corrections/weird tools required.

 Quote: Betty Landercasp

Perhaps if you are really most interested in "pack" management it would be cool to contact someone who manages packs of hounds. I thought that foxhound packs were quite common in England, but perhaps this is just an imaginary idea from TV. Perhaps there is someone local who really knows about how loose dogs are managed best -- it might be something a little different than the ideas folks on here have -- since on here most people are

nterested in each individual dog, as opposed to a "pack".

Great post thankyou one of the most helpful peace of input I have received here and certainly something I will look into I live in a semi rural location and am suer I will be able to locate a local fox hound pack and handler/s