"On her visit I had an eureka moment when during her consultation she explained that as well behaved as the dogs were when she met them I didn't actually control them from a point of conventional obedience training."

Approximately 50 posts, starting, I think, with Steve and Duane telling you that your dogs were doing what they felt like doing, had told you that here. Still, at least you did finally "hear" it. That's good.



" I took my dog over to the male dog owners house help introduce the two with no problems and left the owner with a list of commands that she had now been taught. "


I'm now speechless.

The day I do something like that is ..... never.

"" I took my dog over to the male dog owners house help introduce the two with no problems and left the owner with a list of commands that she had now been taught."




!!!The absolutely "WORST" way to introduce strange dogs!!!

There are some really green people that come here to listen and they do learn. I can only see you taking what's being said to you and spinning it to suit what you want.
Now your taking your "training" and ego and are going to create problems for other people and their dogs you can never imagine.
Hopefully you and all the people and dogs involved will survive.
I will wish you luck and goodby.

 Quote:

.The owner told me that within less than a day she seemed dominate the male dog. I am very proud of her and now feel confident in her new found compliant ways having now put in the time and effort needed to actually do proper obedience training with her.

So,,, you turned your bitch loose on this male in his own home to beat him into submission and you're proud of how compliant she was in doing it? So now that you've discovered these magic verbal powers, which command did you use?

And actually, speaking of verbalising, can you link me to the video where you arent babbling constantly? I missed it.

You were doing so well until I hit the last paragraph.

Loaning your dog out is nuts.

Steve said;
"And actually, speaking of verbalising, can you link me to the video where you arent babbling constantly? I missed it".


Steve, I think the video we DON'T want to see is the first time he takes his dogs in a strange house with strange dogs and it doesn't go as he planned.
!!Coming soon to a hospital near you!!

Andrew;

I'm pleased that you have started obedience training with your pack. All of you will benefit greatly from the experience and quality of life to come.

I want you to take something constructive from the criticism you are receiving. All of the experienced owner/trainers here believe in strong leadership from the human pack leader. We do not allow dogs to teach other dogs. IMO, and the opinion of the collective forum, it is "flake philosophy" to think that a dog can learn proper behavior or have it impressed on them by another dog. It is a potentially explosive situation.

As you yourself noted, the friend's dog is probably not aggressive to strangers, so to me and others, your prognosis was just a failed shot in the dark. Your friend needs counsel and advice from a trainer who is well-versed in training away behavioral issues. Most of the seasoned trainers here, myself included, do regular training with experienced professional trainers. In my case, my sport club is headed by a very experienced trainer/handler/wrangler.

If you would have your friend come to the forum, some of the seasoned folks here can help guide her toward the solution. Don't make yourself liable for any problems that can arise from errant advice or misguided attempts to help. One bad experience could lead to one or more of your dogs being put down.

I don't understand any of this...

You needed an experienced trainer to tell you that your dogs were not trained. Yet, you take it upon yourself to "help" this other person that has possibe aggression issues with her dog.

Someone's gonna get hurt... bad.

First of all, there is a certain way to introduce strange dogs- the way you did it was NOT it. The way you did it would result in fights more often than not. It's true that ignorance is bliss...

You then LEFT your dog in this house with a stranger who can't handle aggression and her "possibly" aggressive dog. If something had happend with the dogs, do you honestly think this person could have sorted it out??

Now you are PROUD of the fact that this young female that you left in the strangers house was dominating this male dog within a day. Why is this something to be proud of? I would be wary of bringing her back into the pack as she now has experience as Alpha and apparently likes it, AND she's in heat which often makes bitches even bitchier.. with your obvious lack of pack leadership, I feel a fight coming in the future...

Andrew, I understand that you think you understand the canine psyche, and you want to help. That's admirable. But you have to gain some experience, earn your stripes, before you can start giving out advice... listen, watch, and learn before you speak. Your dogs will teach you a lot, but so will the folks here on this board... we have the experience- we have earned our stripes. We have made mistakes- learn from what we've done.

As for your friend's problem with her dog, why not give her the number of the trainer that helped you?

ah , from out of the past comes a glimmer of light . . .


and then darkness .



andrew , can i make this any simpler : dogs don't train dogs , people train dogs .

i mean like , good on ya for finally realizing yer dogs weren't trained , like at all .

they were pretty much responding to suggestions you were directing at them , but as far as " trained " : not .

we can all see you really love your dogs , and this breed , but really , put your ego aside and start doing what is in the dogs' best interest .

train your dogs and enjoy them .

del

http://youtu.be/dotZ5T_jfGI

I know its its only short but an illustration of the improved recall I have since employing the new training techniques I have been shown.Note where there are people in the background,which normally have my lot bounding off towards them I am now able to recall easily and tho the video does not show the dogs that were with the strangers they were there and still the dogs listened and remained in close proximatey to me and you will notice I focus most of my attention on the young female who previously would have just shot off and not come back until she decided to .Things are not perfect yet but I think there is an improvement in recall and they no longer bound off to meet strangers and their dogs but remain with me.Infact they seem not to want to go off away from me as they used to do.