Andrew, I think your dogs are beautiful, and you are clearly devoted to them.

I want to repeat something I said on your post a while ago.

In the light of the event that allegedly took place in Greater Manchester yesterday, the public and the press will be reacting irrationally and hysterically AGAIN to large, Bull breed dogs in the UK need every bit of support and intelligent thinking they can get; The great British public are a nation of dog lovers, but sadly massively ignorant about individual breeds, and all it takes is some parent seeing your sweet and gentle, but off lead dogs in a public place, who may have had a read of the tabloids, and completely freak out.

Please, please think about this, I run my pack off lead, way off the beaten track, and nowhere near public gathering places like parks.

I would hate to see the Neo, the Boerboel, the English, Bull or any other Mastiff on the dangerous dog list, or worse, on the banned dog breed list, and we as owners MUST do our job properly to ensure this NEVER happens.

Taking this pack into public off-leash demonstrates to people who are already frightened of your breed that they cannot trust the owners to be responsible and in control.

And now it will be x 1000.

QUOTE: "... we as owners MUST do our job properly to ensure this NEVER happens."

My dog is a scary breed to many people. He has a solid, reliable recall, very unlike Andrew's dogs, but he would still NEVER be in a public place off-leash like Andrew's pack. He would NEVER appear to the public as not under physical control.

He would never be allowed to harass a horse or chase a teenager in a park, and the last thing I would allow would be for him to physically dominate a visitor dog. For any reason.

And I'm not a special-case fanatic. This is how responsible owners of breeds the public sees as scary behave.

This is how responsible owners of all breeds behave, but particularly those whose breeds are already viewed with trepidation.

The thought of Oliver being turned loose on horses and teens??? I shudder.

 Quote: steve strom

The thought of Oliver being turned loose on horses and teens??? I shudder.

Oh, not Oliver! He is much too scary to be out in daylight.


No, I meant the GSD Pomfret.

Now I have to ask what breed Oliver is??




Note: He is one of those terrifying Pugs. I'll send you a scary picture.

Edited by Connie Sutherland (03/27/2013 06:59 PM)
Edit reason: mod note inserted

 Quote: tracey holden

Andrew, I think your dogs are beautiful, and you are clearly devoted to them.

I want to repeat something I said on your post a while ago.

In the light of the event that allegedly took place in Greater Manchester yesterday, the public and the press will be reacting irrationally and hysterically AGAIN to large, Bull breed dogs in the UK need every bit of support and intelligent thinking they can get; The great British public are a nation of dog lovers, but sadly massively ignorant about individual breeds, and all it takes is some parent seeing your sweet and gentle, but off lead dogs in a public place, who may have had a read of the tabloids, and completely freak out.

Please, please think about this, I run my pack off lead, way off the beaten track, and nowhere near public gathering places like parks.

I would hate to see the Neo, the Boerboel, the English, Bull or any other Mastiff on the dangerous dog list, or worse, on the banned dog breed list, and we as owners MUST do our job properly to ensure this NEVER happens.

Tracey I absolutely agree and such a terrible incident which because it happened within the home of the dogs and the victim being an invited guest there will likely mean little or no consequence for the owner of the dogs which is so wrong and sends the wrong message he deserves prison or worse.After hearing this on the news I went out and brought 3 more leads like the one I had being using to train the dogs at home and intend to always keep them on these giving them the freedom I like them to have and the control that will make others feel safe.

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u165/bosscat69/2013-03-27-143_zps4cca857d.jpg

Furthermore as I do not drive I have arranged with a friend to take me and the dogs weekly to more secluded places further afield.

If a picture paints a thousand words... Oliver - Outstanding!!

 Quote: Greg Meyer

I'm going to apologize up front if I am out of line but I have to put this out there.

While it's encouraging to see you try to improve your and your dogs' obedience skills, Andrew, I think you are truly missing one very important point.

From the perspective of someone who tries to follow the rules/laws and be a responsible, courteous dog owner, folks like you who think the rules of common courtesy don't apply to you are our worst nightmare when on the trails, paths, or streets, regardless of how friendly or under control you think your dogs are.

I can't begin to count the number of peaceful walks and entire days with my dogs that have been ruined because I had to fend off a loose approaching dog or at least change my route to avoid some selfish person letting their dogs run unleashed, not knowing if this is going to work out OK or result in still another attack from a loose dog. If everyone followed the rules and walked their dogs on a leash when in public where there is a chance of encountering some else, we wouldn't have this anxiety to deal with. While I think it's admirable that you have this self-perceived "dog whisperer" bond with your animals, that's no consolation to those of us who simply want to enjoy a peaceful walk somewhere. If your recall isn't 100% dead perfect, you have no way of correcting your dog unless you're on an e-collar. Better yet, whether you have a strong recall or not wouldn't be a factor if your dogs were on leashes. Use the recall for shaping behavior on your own property, not to show other people trying to enjoy walks with their dogs how wonderful of a bond you have with your dogs.

That said, I don't mean to slam anyone who lets their dogs run free walking in the woods or out in the open somewhere. I do it, too. However, if there comes even the slightest chance I will encounter someone or another dog, the leash goes back on. I don't want to have to depend on my recall, no matter how strong, as the only means to control my dog. I don't want to put the other people in a position of not knowing what is going to happen with my dog. You should do the same.

Hear, hear! I agree with everything you wrote here, Greg. I run my dog off leash with an ecollar, but that is no guarantee he will recall 100% if he decides he wants to chase something. I hate this quote, but truer words - better safe than sorry. I'd rather keep Enzo on leash than risk anything happening to him. No matter how 'friendly' people's dogs are - my dog isn't. He will tolerate a dog for about 3 seconds and than he's had enough, move along or take the bite.

I can't believe this thread is close to 30 pages long. I applaud Andrew's thick skin and desire to placate those who continue to guide him, however, as much as he loves his dogs I think the bigger picture is missed in that - he's not grasping the seriousness of the situations he places himself in, and until something dire does happen (like meeting a dog like mine), he will never really change his way of thinking. What sucks is if his pack were to meet up with a dog like Enzo, and a fight were to ensue, unfortunately my dog would be the one to get hurt as it's 5-1. So for me, loose dogs = leash my dog and move along as quickly as possible.

This thread is reminding me to carry my wasp spray!

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

Taking this pack into public off-leash demonstrates to people who are already frightened of your breed that they cannot trust the owners to be responsible and in control.

And now it will be x 1000.

QUOTE: "... we as owners MUST do our job properly to ensure this NEVER happens."

My dog is a scary breed to many people. He has a solid, reliable recall, very unlike Andrew's dogs, but he would still NEVER be in a public place off-leash like Andrew's pack. He would NEVER appear to the public as not under physical control.

He would never be allowed to harass a horse or chase a teenager in a park, and the last thing I would allow would be for him to physically dominate a visitor dog. For any reason.

And I'm not a special-case fanatic. This is how responsible owners of breeds the public sees as scary behave.

This is how responsible owners of all breeds behave, but particularly those whose breeds are already viewed with trepidation.

Beautifully summed up here, Connie <:-)

I have an Akita, so I read you 5X5 on this post in particular.

My bitch LOVES people, but would just as soon murder most DOGS <:-(

She will immediately obey: Leave It -> Behind Me -> Down-Stay and ignore other canines at the groomer or in the vet's office.

But I refuse to walk her in public places where we might encounter offlead & uncontrolled dogs belonging to clueless owners, because I may not be able to protect her from being jumped by someone else's reckless beast whom my Akita would likely end up injuring seriously in a flash & for which she would probably be blamed (never mind that she was leashed & did not instigate the incident) !!!

I undrestand the many concerns expressed and have been working on and continue to do so.Please dont be offended those that have dogs that are dog agressive,even tho control of the latter is over ridden with training and commands,or dogs that have little tolerance of other dogs no matter the situation and only maintain control through training,on this front I may not have a dog as well behaved as the dog agressive and or low short tolerance of other dogs akita or gsd but I do have 4 neapolitan mastiffs none are remotley intolerant or agressive towards other dogs or animals so I dont have to worry about what is coming round a corner when I am walking one or all of my dogs on leash.Furthermore I am contantly told by posters to work one dog at a time ,I do this all the time and each week one dog is taken out on its own on leash and confronted with many challenging situations and many demands made of the dog.Below is a short clip of a 5 hour outing with the dog taken out on its own today and as I have said previously it is the exception not the rul hat my dogs are offleash.The short clip is one where the dog is carrying my shopping and is upstairs on a doubledecker bus and one part shows how the dog is made to negotiate the stairs with a loaded backpack while the bus is moving and yes I see the hesitation and uncertainty in the dogs face while doing what I require of her but I also see how she overcomes and carries on to the next challenge:

http://youtu.be/Lr1RmRDOpg0

you will also note the stay command which if not followed would certainly not be a good outcome .All of my dogs are taken out in this way and presented with challenges and commands as I see them and the video is a small snippet of a 5 hour outing.Below is a challenge which presented itself and I took advantage of an unplanned situation.

http://youtu.be/ejpcle7o7-o

All these things give the dogs confidence and the ability to act calmly as opposed to out of fear or other impulses.And I know I'm just "lucky " but I do work hard at being lucky lol.With the recent news in the UK about the killing of a young girl by 4 dogs 2 of which were mastiff "type" dogs having the dogs out and seen to be doing a job and being well behaved will hopefully give a more favourably impression of a breed I love so much.