I've seen protection scenario videos with mastiff type breeds protecting... I also have a crapper from the pound who protects. As a matter of fact, he saved my husband and I from getting a serious ass kicking from a crowd of drug addicts that we harrassed, among other minor incidents. I wouldn't call him an elite dog, but he'll protect. I've also tested him extensively in all different locations from here to hundreds of miles away to make sure he would protect, so I'm not depending on a dog that would curr. There's nothing amazing about that, I would expect the same from any mastiff type. I don't need to pretend or make myself feel better, that's a pretty stupid thing to do if you value your safety. If a dog has a weakness in protecting it needs to be exposed and known about. Anyone who doesn't want to see if their dog can be run and depends on it is a fool.

I wouldn't consider BB's serious working dogs like herders. I would consider them more of an enforcer. Premier was a very poor choice of words. I should have said manual worker, field, farm, sentry, etc. They're different. Why do we need to say which is better than which. It would depend on a persons personal opinions and needs...

I never said mastiff type breeds don't need to be proven. Quite the contrary, I think they should be tested extensively before they're bred. I only mentioned that herder tests were not the best type of test to decide breed worthyness for non herding breeds.

We had a crack problem here in my neighborhood when we moved here 5 years ago. We did some things that ran the low lifes running for cover because the police couldn't nab them. Most tactics involved more reliable means than dogs, but if I wanted to walk to the beach during the battle, I did and if I didn't have a large aggressive dog at the end of the lead I would have been confined to the house. To this day I still walk my dogs around the neighborhood making sure nobody starts dealing again, so they serve a purpose that's effective. If I had a herder someone would have had to have gotten bitten to make a statement. With a mastiff, degenerates (some have to see what the dog has first like the group I mentioned above), they're running in the opposite direction, and if the few that are left have the balls to pass my house on foot at all, it's almost at a run.

Will, I'm with you on this, but wanted to know if you woudl also include the Dutchies with the GSD's & Mals. I have no personal experience with them, but from what I've read & seen, maybe they get to be included? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Good analogy Will. Like Lamborghini and Ferrari. Ferrari raced all over the world from day one and Lamborghini used to make tractors.

What "work" do BBs do in Africa? Are they hunters, drovers, catch dogs, protectors? I don't know much of their origins.
In the US we have some true working farm dogs such as the American Bulldog and Pit Bull. I know there is a lot of debate on these dogs as well but many have been titled in sports such as Sch and ring while many continue to be true working dogs catching hogs and cattle while protecting.

The only bulldog breed that I know of that is routinely used for dog sports in Europe is the Boxer. To be able to register puppies they must pass breed suitability tests that include protection and many compete through the IPO3 or even in ring and do well against their herder competition.

Barb,
Please - think before you post!!
As a legal piece of advice, what you're describing with "running off" people in the situation that you described is totally illegal and if your dog bites someone now that you've put this foolish statement into print, you could be held liable and charged with vigilantee type action and lose *everything* that you own.

If you're going to break the law, putting it into print where an attorney might be able to look it up via a "Google" search is foolish beyond words. Don't set yourself up for legal liability as you just have.

I chose my words carefully and my dogs aren't going to bite anyone. The war is over. Finding someone to testify against us slim, and finding a jury to condemn us for making a neighborhood livable is 50 50.

Keep posting stuff that a defense attorney would love, that's real smart.....

A defense attorney for what? I'm not following you here. No 'crimes' have been committed. You're insinuating I'm some kind of criminal when in fact we only gave the degenerates a taste of their own medicine. We don't have old ladies getting beat up for $10 or women being intimidated, or houses robbed, or people smoking crack on the corners anymore, so you can insinuate and think whatever you want. You live in a bad area and see how long you tolerate it. We haven't had an incident in a very long time. The neighborhoods pretty safe now.

"GSD's and Mal's are used as ppd's and Police Service canines through out the world, including the home of origin of the Boerboel, RSA. The Boerboel ( and all the mastiff type breeds are used......no where )."

Just to correct you - the boel has been effectively used as a riot control dog in RSA. & I know of a BB in the UK that works with a professional handler protecting a wealthy famous figure. From speaking to the handler, the BB does have plenty of negative points against herders, though it also has allot of positive points.

Why are you so against the breed without fully understanding it first? I appreciate that you are a moderator, though your tone is very condescending. At no point have I made wild claims etc, though you are automatically on the attack - what have you got to prove? I love mals/ quality herders etc & I agree dogs should be tested... but I don't own all of the mastiffs, I just own mine... and I am looking to test my dogs, so why are you looking to criticize? I think the reason owners of herders test so much is because they are serious workers/ nice small/ effective etc. The reason why your average BB owner doesn't is because they just don't feel the need to.

You are basing your opinion on the breed without having seen a good example. If you put 50 GSD in a room you would be lucky to find 5 "top quality" dogs. Its the same for all breeds.

If you choose to not value the breed then thats fine, though there is no need to be abrasive. We are all here to learn, including yourself.

Jon

jon

Quote:Anyone who doesn't want to see if their dog can be run and depends on it is a fool.

I am not sure if you realize just how many dogs can be "run" or if we even have the same terminology. I would love to see, and I am sure Will would to, an off breed do well as a whole with all the claims that are made.

The biggest reason I would cry BS on your whole mastiff PP adventure, is that having worked dogs for over twenty years, the look on my clients faces who read about the "one" out of the whole breed that worked, and all the other fantasies breeders put out there. It is miserable for me to have to show these people that their dog WILL NOT PROTECT THEM. I absolutely want to be proven wrong, but it's not going to happen.

Quote:I think the reason owners of herders test so much is because they are serious workers/ nice small/ effective etc. The reason why your average BB owner doesn't is because they just don't feel the need to.

Don't feel the need, but continue on this long tradition of falsehoods. This is sad. If they did test their dogs, they would be horrified to watch their dogs doing so badly, or more likely, know good and dang well they will and tell the unsuspecting that their breed "needs no training as it is a natural guardian". Well I have sent every natural guardian back to their cars shaking and with very little in the way of pressure. I always felt bad, and I will take out my frustration on anyone that thinks they can tell me these dogs are natural guardians. Stop BSing people. One dog out of every ten thousand doesnt count. Put 50 mastiffs and/or BB in a room and you will come up dry. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

OT, Jeff should your signature read "you're" instead of your. Kind of hurts your case! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />