btw, forgot.
I do agree with Jim 100%. Has to be consequences. Either dog learns it from me, or I run risk of learning it from a guy like Jim <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I have found citations to be great motivational tools for the people. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I wouldn't be in a rush to take the dragging lead off either. It's just added insurance because with it on, if the dog has a lapse, you can grab and correct with good timing. Without it you lose the opportunity for the correction.

After the incident in the marsh, a month or two later my husband took the dog fishing alone without me. For some reason he felt the need to take the lead off and the dog took him on a 45 minute chase. He came home soaked and smelling like swamp <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Now I don't let him take the dog out without me because he might get some ridiculous idea to trust the dog. The dog might be collar wise because I've never seen her try that again, but I don't care as long as she doesn't take off.

That running in the opposite direction thing works great. I had a lab when I was a kid who didn't actively try to escape, but if the opportunity presented itself he was gone, running full speed to the bay. I was just a kid, but because it was usually somehow my fault he got out, I would have to get him back. If I didn't I was in BIG trouble, so I found the running away from the dog thing to help. It makes them think you know where the fun is, so curiously they follow you to find out <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Sometimes you might have to call them a few times. Call the dogs name, run in the opposite direction, stop look at the dog. If he's not coming call again in an excited happy voice, start running. Do that until he comes. Let the dog make the final approach to you with you running slow. If you stop and wait he may hesitate. He will come if you act happy enough. Resist the urge to correct when you catch the dog (like John and others said) because you lost the good timing to correct without it thinking coming to you or being caught is what the correction is for.

I want to thank everyone for all of your suggestions and your experiences with similar escapes. I have learned in a big way that there will be NO more opportunities for this goof ball to take his stroll around the neighborhood. It is also obvious that some consistant recall training is the only way I will ever be able to allow him off leash. Ed gives some help on training a dog not to bolt out the door and I have started to do this as this is the scariest aspect of what is going on now. For those who suggested that I walk away from him when he runs out of the yard, I tried that as I would come back home to get the leash in order to correct him, but he could care less. This surprised me as much as his running off as he has been almost obsessive with being near me but no longer. This new behavior, out of the blue, has me feeling like my dog has been possessed by demons or something, like who is this
dog and where did my dog go? And the biggest question of all, will I be able to turn him back into the trust worthy, never- leave-my side ( unless I am playing ball with him)
boy that he was just a short time ago? I honestly feel very daunted by the prospect and will let you know if I make any progess.
Nancy

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I wouldn't be in a rush to take the dragging lead off either. It's just added insurance because with it on, if the dog has a lapse, you can grab and correct with good timing. Without it you lose the opportunity for the correction.

After a couple of near-misses last summer, I started using an e-collar on my JRT. I gave him two corrections for leaving the yard in the first week, and maybe two more in the next month. There was one further incident about three months later.

But it'd been six months since I'd last needed to correct him for failure to recall in the yard.

Was that long enough?

No.

Yesterday he flushed a rabbit.

IMHO, Jeff, no dog (but especially not untrained and/or high-drive and/or dominant and/or aggressive dogs) should ever be allowed offlead while uncontained without wearing a live e-collar -- Otherwise, an owner is actually proofing their dog at the risk of its safety, or another pet's safety, or even a person's safety, where regressing under high-level distraction could mean getting hit by a car, killing a neighbor's cat, or attacking an innocent passerby, etc.

 Quote:

IMHO, Jeff, no dog (but especially not untrained and/or high-drive and/or dominant and/or aggressive dogs) should ever be allowed offlead while uncontained without wearing a live e-collar

Exactly.

He'd been perfectly behaved for six months, and then he saw that damned rabbit.

We've been on walks through the woods and seen rabbits, and he's always been reliable without using the collar. But the other day, the rabbit exploded out of a bush about four feet in front of his face and tore through a hole in the fence.

He was about 20 feet past the fence when the collar broke his focus, and reminded him that he was supposed to come when I called.

I don't actually use the collar very much. He's a bright, friendly dog and he responds well to positive training. But he wears the collar anytime we're outside the house and I'm not at a venue that forbids it. And a fair amount of time inside the house, too.

I see no downside whatsoever to working with the collar on.

I would consider flushing a separate problem from the defiance run, which is separate from the message sniffing run <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I had a flusher. I used gun dog methods taken from Revolutionary Rapid Training Method Gun Dog by Richard A. Wolters. Wolters is funny too, so the book doesn't drag. Within 3 sessions the flushing was gone and she even pointed in her own oddball way <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Pointing at Cranes
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/2741/1828/1600/IMGP0236.jpg

instead of having her front paw bent in front of her she had it tucked under her body. Oh well, she's not a gun dog <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Maybe some of the methods would work for your JRT.

Ditto, Jeff <:-) I wouldn't be without my dogs' e-collars & Ed Frawley's e-training DVD (!)

Excellent points, Barbara -- I grew up on "Water Dog", "Gun Dog", "City Dog", and "Family Dog" by the late Richard Wolters & I really love him <:-)

I have to get some of his other books because that's the only one I read. I love him too <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

How do you know when you are ready to advance to the e-collar, even with an instructional dvd?