"All the rough wrestling, tug. Some I guess, but not alot! I have an ex-son-in-law that turned a happy little pit into a monster in less than 3months. It got so bad that he needed to be put down"

What was your ex son-in-law doing that turned a dog so quickly? In my opinion unless he was abusing the dog durring this "play" the dog would have turned out bad anyway. Maybe he just sped up the process? I have a hard time seeing why games of tug could get a dog put to sleep unless the dog was already or going to have or having behavior/dominance problems.

~Jamie

I gotta second Jamie here, simply playing tug won't make a dog "turn."

Inescapable punishment (especially a punishment associated with food/positive things) and/or intense frustration (tormented chain dog) over a period of time causes a dog to turn/develop neurosis (read up on Pavlov). Once this happens, there are no documented cases of this being reversed.

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I have an ex-son-in-law that turned a happy little pit into a monster in less than 3months. It got so bad that he needed to be put down

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We had a couple of Chow's that were rough-housed and such. Even though they are a hard breed to figure out, I know that our behavior(tug-of-war, rough play)made them more agressive and ultimately led to them being the killers they turned out to be.

Question: killed what?

Can you define rough-housing?

I know this is not painting a pretty picture in my head. I'm trying to figure out if possibly these dogs were of poor temperament, or high prey drive (ie: did they kill a cat?) or rough handling/poor management? I mean - what you call "monster" might be my idea of a great dog... Can you clariy this all please?

OK <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />if you're saying I am an unresposible pet owner, you're dead wrong. What I described earlier happened and it wasn't pretty <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> The chow's literally ate the heads off two goats that came on our property <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> If you guys are though with the grenades I'm calling it a night.

OK, so this is interesting. I don't believe that a dog that kills a goat(s) that was not trained to leave them alone is really classified as a killer. I have known dogs that would play with the tug for a bit, but then came after you. The last dog I knew to do that was a American Bulldog. He wasn't abused at all. In inexperienced hands...well you saw what happened.

Dog parks......well, it sounds like a good idea, but is not a good idea.

There are always variations with dogs, and their owners. I don't know what a sook is, but I am going to guess it has something to do with being a sissy. That in mind, the breed you are dealing with takes time to mature, and after all is just a dog. Walt Disney movies have given a lot of people really unrealistic views of what animals really are. Yours is just a baby. 3 yr old children don't stand up to 10 yr olds either. Parents also don't let their 3 yr olds get pushed around by 10 yr olds, unlike dog owners.

There are DVD's for sale on the web site above that can help with your training, and there are a lot of articles to help you understand dogs better.

I have no wish to pile on here, but this has become one of the most disturbing threads I've ever read.

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I have an ex-son-in-law that turned a happy little pit into a monster in less than 3months. It got so bad that he needed to be put down

I'm willing to take most people at their word - this is the internet after all - and I always come to this forum and to Leerburg to learn something new. But this statement is just laden with venom...your ex-son-in-law must be some piece of work to do this to a dog. I simply don't believe that this dog was turned into a 'monster' so quickly by playing tug or some friendly rough-housing, and I believe that there is much more to it than that.

To the original poster - don't take your dog to that dog park. You will be doing him, and yourself, no favors by exposing him to aggression at such a young age. You must build confidence in young dogs; don't teach him to be fearful. You probably know people with friendly and well-behaved dogs; let him interact with those dogs.

Dogs, and all animals, learn best through play. There's nothing wrong with playing with a dog. Dogs respect it and bond with you for it. That's my opinion.

I hate to publicly agree with Jeff <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />, but I think we may be forgetting that dogs are ANIMALS. People are KILLERS-dogs are HUNTERS. If a dog is not attacking HUMANS, I really wouldn't call it a killer. I was quite upset when my GSD ate my bird one day, after living with him his entire life, but I didn't push for murder in the first <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />. He got a freebie...because he's a dog. My dog is frustratingly stable, but I've recently been told by the person training him that he now has to be leashed around calves...because he'd kill them...because he's a DOG...not because he's a killer. This same dog somehow is able to exercise enough restraint to not kill the chihuahua he lives with and hates passionately. Dog aggression, cat aggression, human aggression-all things that are undesireable in a pet situation. I don't think goats/cows/birds are things you can really expect your dog to be all lovey-dovey with unless you've specifically trained for this.

I know we were talking about chows in that instance, but I used to foster pit bulls, and call me just lucky, but never had one incident with another animal of any kind, let alone a human being, and we played plenty of tug-o-war. I think you need to be selective in how you treat certain dogs, and perhaps this dog (pit that had to be put down) wasn't "all there" to begin with. It's all about common sense on the part of the person in charge.

Fine, I take it all back, and now we disagree. So there. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

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OK <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />if you're saying I am an unresposible pet owner, you're dead wrong. What I described earlier happened and it wasn't pretty <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> The chow's literally ate the heads off two goats that came on our property <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> If you guys are though with the grenades I'm calling it a night.

So what you're saying is, the goats hopped the fence to your secure property, and secured dogs? If so, you're definitely not unresposible. If it's any consolation, rough housing and tug didn't make your dogs 'killers'. They were born that way. I have a gsd mix with a purple spotted tongue. I've often wondered if he was part chow because of that tongue. He lives to kill squirrels, birds, possum, and whatever small animals that innocently wander into our fenced yard. For the longest time I thought the responsible thing to do would be to put him down <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> He was like my dirty little secret. Friends and family would come over and comment on what a nice dog he was <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Ugly, but nice <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> and I never told anyone what he really did <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Then I found message boards and saw it wasn't that uncommon. It's normal dog stuff. No, he wasn't into tug or rough play. Someone in the area I grew up in had 2 chows. They had a pretty big piece of property and for some odd reason thought they didn't have to fence it. Their dogs would chase anybody who tried to walk by. As a child growing up near these dogs and having to run for my life past them, I'll tell you, it wasn't fun.

jeff oehlsen

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I have known dogs that would play with the tug for a bit, but then came after you. The last dog I knew to do that was a American Bulldog. He wasn't abused at all. In inexperienced hands...well you saw what happened.

Jeff, that is helpful. Why do you think the dogs would go after their owners during tug? Were the dogs screwed up, or the people just really passive? How did the owners react and did you attempt to fix this problem, or tell the people to stop tug games?

Michael, don't worry about your dog, he's still a puppy. Be thankful your dog is the way he is rather than a lunging maniac. The latter is a real PITA, and I guarantee you, one week of that and you'll want the cringing puppy back.

Daniel, the simple answer to. "can you play tug with a large breed puppy?" is yes. It is a opportunity to bond with your dog but you have to set boundaries. Playing tug a war will not turn a pup into a killer. Does the Flink method create killers? No, it is a training tool to develope grip,focus and control.

Abusing a animal,not doing obedience training,not teaching your dog the meaning of no,the owner not taking responsibility to control their dog by fencing or keeping it on leash can create a monster. The owner must take full responsiblity for their dog.

If you look at almost every dog mauling incident simple steps would have prevented the majority of the attacks.