I guess then you get into a situation where you're defining bitework only as defensive bitework... I've seen pups as young as 6 weeks working a puppy sleeve/suit looking in all respects like adult dogs. And there are very many adult dogs in the sport world that wouldn't have done half as well as those pups either. But if "bitework" is only serious... Well then most dogs under about a year probably aren't doing it.
My definition of bitework is... biting a decoy (sleeve/suit) and those pups were doing it. Seriously? Well they were serious about it, but nope, not a chance. I still think it (along with puppy tracking) was basically imprinting. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I guess my beef with this is that it's not as if it's anything particularly special since most people start puppies out with tugs or rags or puppies hang on clothes anyway (I know my byb dogs did). I guess I have no problem calling it bitework in general, or maybe foundation bitework, but when people use the term just so they can boast about what their puppies can do in relation to other people's puppies...I feel it's kind of redundant because there's no guarantee on how puppies are going to turn out anyway, no matter how good a prospect they are at 8 weeks.
Yup, point taken... So then I guess we could go one step further to define "bitework" as structured development of target, grip, and focus. When I've seen baby puppies worked, it's always been very well planned and I don't think anyone catagorizes biting clothes as being "bitework" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> But I personally don't consider rag or tug work either, just sleeve/suit. You're right though, a lot can happen to a dog in it's first year.
Janice Jarman Webboard User Reg: 04-19-2005
Posts: 505
Loc: Mid Missouri USA
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OOPS. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> That will teach me to read the entire discussion before posting. You can tell that I've never used a Halti. I thought they had on muzzles. Sorry.
Well, my pup is about the same age as the one on their web side... maybe if I super glue him, before putting duck tape..(spelling) and maybe entertaining him with a giant bone...I get 10 minutes from him.
I am very optimistic... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I do not know about teaching 9 mos old pup down for 30 min, and what is it good for anyway.. I'd rather play tug <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Dan Oas Webboard User Reg: 09-21-2004
Posts: 190
Loc: MI
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That muzzle thought is a big reason NOT to use a halti...
folks think muzzle, assume "vicous" and turn tail.
That in turn, provides little socialization, and before you know it, you have an aggression issue. Been there, done that.
Let my shoulder heal, but took three steps backwards doing so!
Not to mention that "control" is plain dangerous to their neck. Add a reel leash, and your a time bomb waiting for
injury.
Anne Vaini Webboard User Reg: 07-14-2005
Posts: 775
Loc: Wisconsin
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I've been a skeptic of this "30 min down stay." I'm puppysitting for a 9/10 week old GSD pup, so I thought I'd try. I did not use a halti <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> and did use a dog pillow to mark the pot for the puppy to stay. After 4 minutes with the clicker (the puppy had previous touch pad training), I did get a 10 minute down stay. We were both bored to tears and after he settled in, it was all I could do to keep the little guy awake.
I had been thinking of posting something sarcastic like: "sure, if you pull a pup's nose into the ground with a halti everytime it moves, it will start to stay put..." but now, I have to say that it's possible for some puppies, but it's not something that I feel is not very valuable to be taught to a puppy (as compare to housetraining, cratetraining, come to me)
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Re: Question on 30 min Down Stay
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