Beth Fuqua wrote 05/09/2006 01:58 PM Re: Cesar Milan Lawsuit [Re: Becky Shilling ] #105876 - 05/09/2006 01:58 PM
Beth Fuqua Webboard User Reg: 02-25-2004 Posts: 559 Loc: Joliet, IL Offline	Original American Dream: Work hard, save money, do the best you can for your kids to help them up the ladder of life. New American Dream: Sue somebody and get rich quick. This is sad.... Beth http://www.JolietSchutzhund.com
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James Edward Bliss, Jr. wrote 05/09/2006 06:08 PM Re: Cesar Milan Lawsuit [Re: Beth Fuqua ] #105877 - 05/09/2006 06:08 PM
James Edward Bliss, Jr. Webboard User Reg: 08-16-2005 Posts: 88 Loc: DeWitt, Michigan Offline	Well, When someone does you wrong, but not in a criminal way and wont make good by paying for their mistake you don't have any alternative in a civilized society other than to sue them in civil court. We are a society of laws and it is through the courts that we say our arguments must be resolved rather than through violence. Think about it if someone did something very horrible to you the only remedy you have (if they do not make amends) is to take them to court or you can let them get away with doing you harm. If there were no civil court there would be a lot more violence in this society. Law suits must have merit, but to not allow them is to invite people to seek justice by other means. "Utility and intelligence." Rittmeister Max Emil Friedrich von Stephanitz.
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Mike Armstrong wrote 05/09/2006 10:42 PM Re: Cesar Milan Lawsuit [Re: James Edward Bliss, Jr. ] #105878 - 05/09/2006 10:42 PM
Mike Armstrong Webboard User Reg: 08-06-2005 Posts: 615 Loc: San Diego, CA Offline	Quote: . . .it is through the courts that we say our arguments must be resolved . . . Law suits must have merit. . . All very true in theory, but many of us have become jaded by the realities of numerous less than meritorius lawsuits. They're aimed at some person or company (or insurance carrier) who will make it go away with the quick settlement of "an undisclosed amount" to avoid the hassles of the ridiculously long drawn out civil process. So does this suit have merit, or does the plaintiff see deep pockets? I don't know but it won't go to trial and we'll never know the answer, as surely the terms of the settlement will never become public. ". . .and don't call me Shirley!" - Dr. Rumack Suppose you were an idiot. Suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself. -Mark Twain
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Valerie Tietz-Kelly wrote 05/10/2006 11:33 AM Re: Cesar Milan Lawsuit [Re: James Edward Bliss, Jr. ] #105879 - 05/10/2006 11:33 AM
Valerie Tietz-Kelly Webboard User Reg: 07-26-2005 Posts: 566 Loc: NJ, USA Offline	Quote: Well, When someone does you wrong, but not in a criminal way and wont make good by paying for their mistake you don't have any alternative in a civilized society other than to sue them in civil court. We are a society of laws and it is through the courts that we say our arguments must be resolved rather than through violence. Think about it if someone did something very horrible to you the only remedy you have (if they do not make amends) is to take them to court or you can let them get away with doing you harm. If there were no civil court there would be a lot more violence in this society. Law suits must have merit, but to not allow them is to invite people to seek justice by other means. I don't see how civil actions can be equated to a reduction in violence, especially when you can sue McDonalds for burning yourself with their coffee because you forgot it was too hot. Well heck you can sue just about any body for just about any thing....paaaleeease Val
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Charlie Snyder wrote 05/10/2006 03:12 PM Re: Cesar Milan Lawsuit [Re: Valerie Tietz-Kelly ] #105880 - 05/10/2006 03:12 PM
Charlie Snyder Webboard User Reg: 08-02-2001 Posts: 999 Loc: Offline	I love to bash lawyers as much as anyone else. Jury verdicts and judicial decisions that make the news often seem to fly in the face of common sense. The company I used to work for was driven into bankruptcy by mostly frivolous asbestos claims filed by lawsuit mills. The really unfortunate part of that was the people who were actually suffering from asbestos induced cancers were often lost in avalanche of cases. Consequently, they didn't get the compensation they deserved to make their last few days a bit less stressful. However, the McDonald's case is one that seems silly on the face of it. The headline, "Woman sues for being burned by hot coffee". The standard reaction is, "Well, yeah, coffee is supposed to be hot." You can check these websites for the essential elements of the case ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonald's_coffee_case http://lawandhelp.com/q298-2.htm http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A429950 http://friends.macjournals.com/mattd/hotcoffeemyth or, you can do a web search on your own. Essentially, Micky D's had settled over 700 similar scalding cases prior to this suit being filed. So, they knew spilling coffee in the lap of people being served in cars was a problem. Their internal quality assurance manager had warned them about the problem. They took no steps to address this issue. They served their coffee at 185F. This is generally 20 degrees hotter than other restaurants. Water at 185F causes third degree burns in two to seven seconds. Do an experiment; boil two cups of water, let it cool for a few minutes, then dump it on your crotch. See if you can get out of those pants before you get burned. The 73 year old woman suffered third degree burns to her groin area. A third degree burn essentially kills the top layer of skin. Treatment involves debridement (skinning the area), skin grafts (skinning another area to replace the skin on the burned area), and other therapy to restore a semi-functional skin surface. It's hideously painful. An appeals judge lowered the punitive award to $480K. This is much less than the $2.7 million originally awarded. $480K is about eight hours of coffee sales. The amount awarded for actual damages was reduced from $200K to $160 to recognize the woman's contributory negligence. The jury picked the $2.7M punitive award by essentially fining McDonald's two days of coffee sales. So, the jury tried to get it right to compensate the woman for her actual medical bills and to try and change corporate behavior.
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Connie Sutherland wrote 05/10/2006 03:21 PM Re: Cesar Milan Lawsuit [Re: Charlie Snyder ] #105881 - 05/10/2006 03:21 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: .....the McDonald's case is one that seems silly on the face of it. The headline, "Woman sues for being burned by hot coffee"..........You can check these websites for the essential elements of the case ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonald's_coffee_case http://lawandhelp.com/q298-2.htm http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A429950 http://friends.macjournals.com/mattd/hotcoffeemyth ...... A good reminder that what we hear on TV news or read in newspapers is not usually the whole story. I guess we all know that..... but I'm still guilty sometimes of making snap judgments. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
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Valerie Tietz-Kelly wrote 05/10/2006 03:39 PM Re: Cesar Milan Lawsuit [Re: Charlie Snyder ] #105882 - 05/10/2006 03:39 PM
Valerie Tietz-Kelly Webboard User Reg: 07-26-2005 Posts: 566 Loc: NJ, USA Offline	I have nothing against Lawyers, they have a job to do too. I take issue with the claim civil suits mitigate violence, they may stoke it but they sure don't mitigate it. As for McDonalds and hot coffee......hmmmmmmmm, when do we as thinking adults take responsibility for our actions...sorry don't buy it, you drink or eat anything in your car you have to know you are taking the risk of spilling it on yourselves...JMHO (any yes coffee is hot) Val
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susan tuck wrote 05/10/2006 11:39 PM Re: Cesar Milan Lawsuit [Re: Valerie Tietz-Kelly ] #105883 - 05/10/2006 11:39 PM
susan tuck Webboard User Reg: 01-23-2006 Posts: 1608 Loc: Cali & Wash State Offline	Just wanted to say the first time I saw Cesar Milans' show on tv I literally stood up & clapped. I think he has saved a lot of dogs (what he calls "red zone") that otherwise would have been destroyed. I think he does a great job, especially in getting people to re-think how to handle & treat dogs. A lot of experienced people have understood how to handle these dogs, but perhaps were not as adept at getting the message across to the general public. He really is gifted at communicating, especially with people! So many people have for so long thought they were doing a service to their dogs by treating them as little people, but it took Cesar to get them to understand that they could have a much more rewarding relationship with dogs by respecting them for what they are. I hope Cesar Milan is able to weather the storm & continue getting his good message out.
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Chris Hartman wrote 05/17/2006 04:03 PM Re: Cesar Milan Lawsuit [Re: susan tuck ] #105884 - 05/17/2006 04:03 PM
Chris Hartman Webboard User Reg: 05-05-2006 Posts: 5 Loc: New Jersey Offline	It sounds like the dog probably fell off the treadmill...it would be consistent with the injury to the throat and bruising on the legs. The "choke collar" was probably one of Cesar's nylon "25 cent leashes." Obviously an accident...the question will be: was there negligence by the Center employee...it's a shame, this will only give more ammo to Cesar's animal rights critics
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