When you put bandogs into drug dealers hands, who also happened to be white supremicists who have a meth lab that want the dogs to kill intruders, you get what happened in San Francisco. When you take those same dogs with the foundation they had and give them to a white trash lazy ignorant old lady on a farm, you get what happened in San Francisco. Then you give them to some wacky attorneys in a condo/townhouse setting, you have a disaster like that of San Francisco.

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people who cross mastiffs with aggressive breeds so that they will get that protective instinct plus the willingness to bite are creating uncontrollable monsters.

No, they're recreating what the breed was. Uncontrollable, no. If you put them in the wrong hands, yes. Steel Trap doesn't do that. They are very particular about where they place their dogs. I just watched Roger expose some guy on a message board that had inquired about his dogs. He was not suited to own them. He wanted a dog so aggressive nobody else could handle it. Roger turned around and exposed him so nobody else would sell him a dog, and told him he was insane.

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but that does not make mastiffs ineffective deterrents or cowards.

Will here was into mastiffs for many many years, on a real training level with them, and I recall him saying he's never encountered ONE who would protect it's owner. Same facts I've heard elsewhere.

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jmnsho. and no offense to you, who i see eye to eye with on many things.

Ditto Alice <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

what the breed was in which century, barbara? the fourth? the modern mastiff has not been an attack dog in centuries. numerous other breeds have been crossed with them to create large, aggressive breeds, but the OEM with a correct temperament is not aggressive. the main reason the bullmastiff was created was to have a mastiff-type dog that would bite. this was back in the 19th century.

if by protection, will meant mastiffs won't attack on command, that's quite likely true. that is not the kind of protection they offer.

and i'm more than happy to have those who want protection dogs think that a mastiff won't protect them. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> mastiffs are indeed the wrong breed for "protection work" as we understand it on this forum. it ruins them.

anyway, this is getting far off topic from the original poster's question.

i do think the situation with the older banddog and the young female sounds potentially volatile. if it were me, i would keep looking. but it is possible you will run into this problem no matter which puppy you get, if not immediately, then later, as the pup matures.

have you read ed's articles on maintaining a multiple dog household?

What is an 'attack dog'?

I've read in many books that the English Mastiff was no longer a good dog because it was killing and mauling poachers. They wanted a dog less ferocious and more inclined to hold vs maul because when they showed up before the magistrate with a ripped up poacher, they were given sympathy, rather than being treated like the criminals they were.

Alice, it's no secret that your against protection training dogs, and I can respect that, if you worry about yourself and your dogs, not everyone else's.

The original subject changed when you made the quote below.

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do these people ("steel trap kennels") have any clue of what they are doing? crossing bulldogs with neos? their website truly makes me sick.

"Steel-trap dogs will always be used for the purpose for which they were bred, first and foremost. "

but then they don't say what that purpose is.

stay away. they are breeding aggressive mutts. not for first-time dog owners, indeed!

Your opinion is only that and it's not based on any real knowledge but sensationalistic speculation. Please do not slander people and dogs you know nothing about. Not only is it rude, but it does nothing good for dogs but create fear and negative impressions. Do you know or have experience with these people, with their dogs? No, so how can you make such statements? I'll tell you, I've known Roger for a few years now, and he wouldn't dream of breeding a dog that had questionable nerves unlike some < cough>.

barbara, we can continue this off-topic diversion via PMs. check yours. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Splendid idea Alice <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I have received two highly concerned emails from Mr. John M. Cantu of Steeltrap Bandogs asking me to apologize for posting his website's URL here on the Leerburg forum & to retract it from this chat-board...

I told him that I hadn't noticed any prohibition on his web-page forbidding visitors to post his URL on other dog-related sites & that if he didn't allow it, then I was sorry for being unaware of it...

I then invited Mr. Cantu to share his views right on this thread, so I hope he'll join us here -- I believe that Mr. Cantu would also express serious concerns over a relatively inexperienced Bandog owner buying a new Bandog with an "iffy" temperament, expecting these particular pets to live together as best friends...

But maybe John M. Cantu of Steeltrap Bandogs will come on this board & speak for himself ?

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do these people ("steel trap kennels") have any clue of what they are doing? crossing bulldogs with neos? their website truly makes me sick.

"Steel-trap dogs will always be used for the purpose for which they were bred, first and foremost. "

but then they don't say what that purpose is.

stay away. they are breeding aggressive mutts. not for first-time dog owners, indeed!

Unless you have seen first hand in person Steel Traps dogs, unless you have worked them, interacted with them and seen them around kids you have no business making such comments, you should be ashamed of yourself.

I know Roger and John personally and have seen many of their dogs as well as seen them worked at my club. I can say with the upmost confidence if ANY dog showed ANY kind of temperament issue it would not only not be bred but it would not be alive.

Sammy, not to cause any more confusion on this thread, please type the name of the person you are quoting & addressing in the BODY of your posts, so that it will not appear the messages you're challenging were MINE -- Thank you for this consideration in future...

I didnt mean for this thread to turn into a thread against bandogs and the breed. The bandogs I have been around have been nothing like the stereo type. They dont show unwarranted aggression, are very people friendly, etc. My male would fall into the 'pet' category. Which from what I understand all breeds have. Some dogs are meant for working and some are good for pets. Everyone that has seen/met my dog has nothing but good things to say. They are shocked because all they here is the 'pitbull stereo typing' and they assume that any dog that resembles a pit is an aggressive monster. As with everything in life, there are some good and some bad, unfortunately all that gets talked about are the bad ones.

My dog and I have come a long way. He came from a neglected home at 1 yr of age. He just turned three. Has had whip worm, coccidia (to the point of almost dying) and recently leptospirosis and now has Bridging Spondylosis (before three years of age) on 3 vertebrate in his back. This dog has had it rough, but some how he is still an amazing animal and so eager to please. Everyday when I get up in the morning he is waiting at the back door just waiting to go on our morning stroll. Every day when I get home from work he is sitting at the back gate waiting for me to come through. I never thought we would come as far as we have, but with the right info and patience, its amazing what can be accomplished. There is no way I would place him in a uncontrollable monster or time bomb category. He is the farthest thing from it.

Are there some screwed up bad bandogs, sure. But the same goes for every other breed out there I'm sure you will all agree. To say that bandogs are aggressive monsters or condemn them all is just not fair. Any dog or breed put into the hands of a jackass is a disaster waiting to happen.



Again, no disrespect meant to anyone and I truely do appreciate all of the advice, but if we can keep the advice coming without stereo typing, it would be greatly appreciated.

I am here to learn and learn and learn. I dont know it all, I havent had dogs for years and years and years. That is why I am here, if we all were experts and knew it all, I dont think any of us would be here. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />