Hello All,
Just a quick update on Max. After just a few days of being on this elimination diet things seem to be going pretty well. Here is the funny thing, after a few days Max was still itching and scratching quite a bit, so in desperation my wife had me stop by the feed store to see if they had anything that might be of some help for his scratching, they had a product there by Happy Jack that was really more for mange but my wife and I figured what the heck and I picked up a bottle of it, went home and put it on all of Max spots that he continued to scratch at, it was amazing, with minutes he stopped all of that and was not scratching any longer. It was for sardotic mange but like I said my wife and I figured it could not hurt, the main ingredent is sulpur and it seemed to work wonders for Max and his itching. We are at the folks on the board recommendation giving him his salmon oil and have even given him sardines at this time with no adverse effects. So far so good and he seems to be so much more comfortable and much more like his normal self. The vet did do a skin scrap to see if Max had any kind of mites but there was none present, any way just wanted to give all an update and thank you all for your support and information. This board is better than gold where it comes to carrying for and treating your dogs. Wish us luck this weekend Max will be going to his first SCH club training, both my wife and I are looking very forward to this and giving my high drive and energy dog a job to do. I also want to thank every one and Ed for this board as it has really helped me to not try and push things to fast with Max, I read over and over again to let him be a puppy and my wife and I followed this advice and have allowed Max to be a real puppy for the first 10 months of his life, yes we do practice NILF but all of that has been purely treat based with no corrections so to speak. So we are going to go to our first club training this coming weekend and Max will begin his what I will call real training. Thanks again for all the responses and we shall see if Max is cut out for this, should be his parents were SCH 3 and SCH1, so wish us luck.
Jay

 Quote: Jay Biles

so in desperation my wife had me stop by the feed store to see if they had anything that might be of some help for his scratching, they had a product there by Happy Jack that was really more for mange but my wife and I figured what the heck and I picked up a bottle of it, went home and put it on all of Max spots that he continued to scratch at, it was amazing, with minutes he stopped all of that and was not scratching any longer. It was for sardotic mange but like I said my wife and I figured it could not hurt, the main ingredent is sulpur and it seemed to work wonders for Max and his itching.

Yep, the shampoo that works wonders for Gunnar's paws has sulphur in it.

Good luck w/Max, with both the club training and the allergies.

VERY happy to hear the mange medication worked for Max. Itching (for humans and dogs alike) is maddening and glad he found relief from it.

How exciting to be going for his first Schutzhund training. Let us (or at least me by PM) know what it was like for you and for him.

Hello All,
Well Max did AWESOME at training this past weekend. He did very well in the OB part, did pretty well during his first time tracking and did well over all in the protection part of the training. The good thing was at the end of the training session both the training director said that Max did have what it takes to do the work. So we are very pleased and happy with that.
Max has also pretty much stopped itching and scratching which is great news as well.
Jay

I decided to give the Happy Jack stuff a try, but the feed store I called said they had a similar product called "Nu-Stock". The ingredients are sulfur, pine oil and mineral oil. Doesn't smell nearly as bad as it sounds, although I don't recommend it as an aftershave. Anyway, I put it on half my dog at noon today, and dang if he didn't stop scratching almost immediately, even on the other half. (I only did half of him because I wanted to see if I could see a difference.) This morning he was scratching about every 5 minutes. He's scratched about 5 times all afternoon. He's still itchy if I rub his belly, but he hasn't been scratching himself spontaneously, except for those few times.

If these results keep up, I'm going to send Jay a big bouquet of roses.

Anita,
Glad to hear that you also had very good results with your itching dog. My Max has now gone for several days without itching all day long maybe a little here and there but who does not itch every now and again. So hopefully you will continue to have great results. I really can not take any credit for this and that all goes to my lovely wife, she was the one who first talked me into stopping at the feed store and then was the one who kind of talked me into getting that Happy Jack stuff, so really she gets all the credit for this, so if roses are going to be sent, send them to the one who deserves them and that would be my wife and not me. I am only the reporter of these events, she was the one who really got the ball rolling. I am very glad to hear that your itchy dog was helped. Hopefully you will continue to see the same kind of results that we are having with Max. Several days now and no more itching all day long... YAHOO!!!!
Jay

 Quote: Jay Biles

Hello All,
Well Max did AWESOME at training this past weekend. He did very well in the OB part, did pretty well during his first time tracking and did well over all in the protection part of the training. The good thing was at the end of the training session both the training director said that Max did have what it takes to do the work. So we are very pleased and happy with that.
Max has also pretty much stopped itching and scratching which is great news as well.
Jay

Somehow I missed this post Jay. How exciting that Max did so well! Good for you guys! I would love to have seen it. Thanks for posting.

 Quote: connie sutherland

Chlorpheniramine, hydroxyine and clemastine were the three listed in that research about combining fish oil with antihistamines.

Also, it said that dogs react differently to the three human antihistamines, and it's a good idea to try each one for a couple of weeks and then try the next......

Well, I took my boy to the vet yesterday because the itching was really out of hand and his skin was getting raw. The Nu-Stock (sulphur, pine oil and mineral oil ointment) did stop the itching very quickly, but unfortunately the effect wore off after a few hours, so I couldn't consider that a permanent solution.

Had a good, long talk with the vet. We decided to do a short burst of prednisone plus antibiotics to stop the immediate problem before it developed into some really nasty hotspots and such. Yes, I know the warnings about prednisone.... even my vet said prednisone was abused and overused by the veterinary profession for a long time. But sometimes quick triage action is called for. Once the prednisone wears off, we go to stage 2 - the detective work. If the problem doesn't return, then we assume it was some environmental allergy or even a single flea bite (vet: "Advantage is good, but it's not a force field") that caused a reaction that spiralled out of control. If it does return, we go to the elimination diet step. Last resort is a dermatologist visit and allergy tests.

I asked about Hydroxyzine and salmon oil. Vet said he's a big pusher of salmon oil, and was happy I was giving it, but that hydroxyzine doesn't work as well as it used to. When it initially came out it worked quite well, especially with salmon oil, but at some point the plants making it shut down, and when it came back on the market, the formulation was different. He's found it just doesn't get assimilated and used nearly as well. He has more luck now with Chlorpheniramine, and that will be what we try if still needed after the prednisone treatment. Benadryl he's found to be the least effective, and I've already tried it with no luck. He had no problem with me using the Nu-Stock for quick, topical relief.

He also said, and I've not heard or read this elsewhere, that he doubts my dog has a food allergy because in his experience, food allergies tend to be more localized. Meaning there are specific itchy spots, but generally not over the entire body. My guy is super itchy absolutely everywhere, which he says he's associated more with flea and inhalent allergies. Anybody else heard or noticed this? If true, would be a useful guideline.

Lastly, we discussed flea control. He found no evidence of a problem, but again, it only takes one bite, and the flea's saliva can still get into the dog's system in the short time the Advantage/Frontline/whatever takes to kill the flea. He also liked my idea of upping the dosage size - my guy is right on the borderline, and he thinks maybe the larger size would work better. And he gave me pointers on applying it. Said he never puts it near the tail, only between the shoulderblades and maybe for big dogs a foot back from the shoulders, so the dog has no chance whatever of licking any of it off. Together with the borderline dose size, this raises the possibility there wasn't quite enough Frontline in my dog's system to be as effective as it should be.

One last tidbit - not really itchy-related, but backs up my faith in this vet. I had my "Schutzkatz" with me for his annual checkup. I finally fessed up that Pivo eats an entirely raw diet. Vet didn't even blink, just said don't change a thing, it's the healthiest cat he's seen this year and has beautifully clean, perfect teeth.

Hope ya'll didn't get bored reading this, but I thought the vet had some interesting info I hadn't come across before.

 Quote: AnitaGard

... but that hydroxyzine doesn't work as well as it used to. When it initially came out it worked quite well, especially with salmon oil, but at some point the plants making it shut down, and when it came back on the market, the formulation was different. ..... He also said, and I've not heard or read this elsewhere, that he doubts my dog has a food allergy because in his experience, food allergies tend to be more localized. Meaning there are specific itchy spots, but generally not over the entire body. My guy is super itchy absolutely everywhere, which he says he's associated more with flea and inhalent allergies. Anybody else heard or noticed this? If true, would be a useful guideline. ...

I am using a form of hydroxyzine at the moment on an allergic dog with good results, but maybe I will re-try Chlorpheniramine (which I also used successfully) and see if it's better.

The specific itchy spots are what I have seen with almost all allergic dogs (and I have owned/adopted several). That is, while they might have been itchy all over, there are spots that seem universally the worst, such as the paws, the base of the tail, sometimes the groin, etc.

But regardless, food is less likely anyway, as I'm certain your vet knows, since after fleas, environmental/inhalant allergies are way more frequent than food allergies.

Sounds like the vet is on top of it. You're fortunate. That's the way to use steroids -- to break a cycle and to walk that tightrope, if necessary, between bad effects and acceptable quality of life. A dog who cannot even sleep and who is miserable with scratching has need of intervention, and your vet sounds like he understands that Pred is not used lightly.

I think you're on the way to helping your dog. You get it, and so does your vet.

It's rough, and it's frustrating, but allergies can be controlled.

P.S. Don't forget to check inside his ears often, so a secondary ear infection doesn't get hold.