Quote: judy troiano

.....Just yesterday he was in a down stay, we were practicing, and he got up out of nowhere. I was like, ! So I took his collar and popped it back to the place he was lying and was saying "stay" the whole way. His pops are like negative 1, he's a soft dog, as you know Wendy. Anyway, he went back into the down and was about to throw up lying down . That's why he broke the stay - he had to throw up and I corrected him for it . I felt like Cruella Deville. Of course when I saw him start to heave I released him but I had already corrected the poor dog . I think he still loves me but I'm not sure .

Oh, poor Judy I was going to say poor Gunnar but you probably need a sympathy pat on the back more than he does at this point :laugh: . You are too funny.

I think if you are happy with when he will break the stays, that's all that matters. It's up to you to decide what you are going to expect from your dogs and I would never tell you otherwise.

I do competion obedience and would correct for all three of your situations for my dogs. Having a totally reliable stay is something that I love to have and depend on. I spend a lot of time with my dogs, take them everywhere with me, and I go camping by myself with them. I like being able to run to the corner store and be able to leave them in a stay while I'm running in to grab something. When I'm camping I can leave them while I'm checking things out or getting into something. Most of the public stays I try to keep them in sight more to make sure some crazy person doesn't do something stupid to them than to make sure they don't get up and check on me. My dogs also had reliable random stays and I could and did stop them in their tracks if they were about to cross the street or get into something dangerous.

My dogs were also smart dogs and would break a stay if I were in mortal danger, but only then. I have had kids fall on them during a stay and being reasonable, they would get up, move over a step or two, and then continue to stay. I would never correct a dog for moving when they were being hurt like that.

I have found that obedience training has been the greatest thing ever for making my dogs so reliable and wonderful at home and when I take them places. For me, it has only had positive real life effects.

Judy, now it sounds as though his 'stay' may not be as strong as you think or as generalized as you would like/expect. To me if someone has to creep away from their dog going s-t-a-a-a-y-y.. they do not have a reliable response to a "stay" command and more training is required.

Of course that's a general comment not particularly directed toward you; but perhaps you need to take more factors into consideration as to why the stay "works" for him sometimes and not others. Before you correct you need to be sure that the dog fully understands the command they have ignored.

I think if he's breaking his stay to go check on you or because he is sick, it's ok. From reading some of your other posts, I would asusme you would like it if Gunnar broke a stay to go and check on you for possible a protection instance. Smoke out of an oven is a good excuse, as well as you yelping. He was just rush to save the day, sounds like.
I wouldn't correct unless he delibertly decided that he didn't want to obey because he was challenging your leadership, or because of his only self-interested reasons.

 Quote: lee hanrahan

.... That's why I don't understand the buying bread quote... My dog would never be left in a stay outside a store (not sure if that's what they meant or not)....

Not speaking for Red, but I think he meant there's sometimes a need for veering off the beaten path (of the hard and fast stay at all costs) - as he put it "a well behaved responsive dog the occasionally breaks the stay when something exceptional happens?".

 Quote: Sandy Moore

Oh, poor Judy I was going to say poor Gunnar but you probably need a sympathy pat on the back more than he does at this point :laugh: . You are too funny.

Well, yes Sandy, you are correct. It's still bothering me. I think I could use a hug...sniff, sniff.

Brad, It's not quite as bad as you make it sound . It's a 'stay' two times and he'll stay, not the way you put it your post. Which is really bad that way. My way is just bad .

Thanks for your opinions guys. It helped!

The analogy I was making was having a rail (a.k.a. top fuel dragster a'la Don Garlits). It's the perfect car for going very fast in a straight line for a very short distance. If you needed to go to the store for a loaf of bread that same great dragster becomes more trouble than it's worth. Hence a dog that performs perfectly in the ring or during the predictability of a competiton (the rail) may not be a great dog to deal with variable stimuli (the Jeep).

I have noticed a lot of variables in the situations envisioned by different posters. We, collectively need to remember we're talking about dogs we've never seen in context to people and places we've never encountered.

So, Judy given all the information you've provided I'd say breaking the down/stay for your son, or when you move to greet a stranger/friend requires work. There is no sense of urgency involved, no threat to be percieved like smoke or a startled yelp.

I use stay all the time. When we're moving through a crowded resturant I'll give Jäger a stay or signal it to walk someplace single file then have him heel when I'm through. With the exception of guard and bite I wind up using all of Jäger's skills daily.

{hug} There, there Judy, Gunnar has forgotten the incident and you should too. {hug}

I believe sit means sit, stay means stay etc. never give a command you cant enforce, these are rules of training a working dog. If the dog is a pet in the home im sure you are never consistant with the commands or enforcement of them in witch case it doesnt matter. be glad you have a dog with human emotions.I think its fine to have a family dog, just dont correct the dog for breaking a command at other times. The dog doest know the difference between its ok to break the stay if i cant see mom or I can break the stay when that person delivers paper in that box.... the key is to be consistant....................................................................................................................

I didn't mean anything derogatory, Judy. I was just making a general comment to create a clear picture of one extreme end of a spectrum that's all; it wasn't directed toward you specifically.

Lance why are you telling me that? Is this comment for Judy?
I think so..