I agree with Cindy on this one. If you have a breeding female, then it is your responsibility to deal with any pups that come from her...wanted or not. I realize that it was not an intentional act set up by the OP, but the bitch was not contained. Period. As the OP says, "Clearly, the problem is the handlers." I'm not trying to be judgemental, honestly, but his best intentions don't change the situation. If it were me, I'd be equally hard on myself.

So, if you have a female in heat...you have the responsibility to keep her contained and it is your responsibility to guard against accidents just like the one that happened. If you don't, you have to deal with the consequences. In this case, the consequences are:

1.) Spaying the bitch earlier than you would like to, OR
2.) Attempting to place the pups from an unwanted litter out of a young mother.

Having her go through carrying some possibly large pups at her age, then going through labor, then euthanizing her pups after they're born and traumatizing her is just making the dog pay the price for the handler's mistake.

My advice would be to confirm the pregnancy as soon as possible...the OP may have dodged a bullet this time and then lesson learned: If you don't want your female to breed...make SURE she can't...be it containment or altering if you can't 100% insure containment.

If the bitch is pregnant, then spay her early in the pregnancy if the injection winds up not being an option. I know that spaying at 9 mos isn't something that is preferable, but I believe it is better than the alternatives.

 Quote: Betty Waldron

Thank you Cindy.

I second that!

Cold-hearted or not in relation to the pup culling, that's an awful lot of stress to put on such a young bitch, just to destroy every resulting puppy. It would be an enormous and potentially dangerous waste in so many ways, if you ask me. If the owner wasn't planning on ever breeding her, and all alternative methods are either not available or too risky (which it sounds like at least some of them are), spaying sounds like the best option.

~Natalya

 Quote: carol boche

While I see your point and agree somewhat, wouldn't it be safe or "okay" to euthanize all but one or two in order for the bitch to rear a pup or two rather than have 12 (possible) Mal/Lab crosses to find homes for?


I am just trying to broaden my way of thinking here.
Thanks

My question still stands.....I just know that around here (you have to know where I live which is inbtween two reservations and pet care is NOT thought of most of the time) I would not give away OR sell anything remotely Malinois related as most of the people here allow dogs to run loose and "pack up". Having Mals thrown into the mix, especially with the lines I have, would NOT be an option.
With this said, I keep close watch on heat cycles and have a kennel made specifically for keeping bitches in and males OUT.
If this would have happened to me, I would have opted for the injection(s) or had her altered if that were my only course of action.
Euthanizing all but a couple "unwanted" pups seemed like an option, but I am learning here and that is a good thing. That is what I am here for. So I appreciate this dicussion as it opens my mind and allows me to "think outside the box".

I wanted to add in that here, where I live, there are A LOT of pit-bull and pit-bull cross dogs running loose. I could not imagine (not to mention that I would feel terrible) adding a Malinois in the mix.

 Quote: Amber Morgan

Having her go through carrying some possibly large pups at her age, then going through labor, then euthanizing her pups after they're born and traumatizing her is just making the dog pay the price for the handler's mistake.

Good post Amber -- agree 100% -- and I am trying to put myself in the OP's shoes so to speak.

 Quote: carol boche

I would not give away OR sell anything remotely Malinois related as most of the people here allow dogs to run loose and "pack up". Having Mals thrown into the mix, especially with the lines I have, would NOT be an option.

...where I live, there are A LOT of pit-bull and pit-bull cross dogs running loose. I could not imagine (not to mention that I would feel terrible) adding a Malinois in the mix.

Carol, kudos to you for adding this angle - not only do "accidental" breedings add to the abundance of unwanted dogs already in the world, they can also add a dangerous dose of unpredictability to the mix. It's bad enough that some people buy PUREBREDS they don't know enough about or prepare for, but when uneducated (or just unsuspecting) pound puppy adoptees take on the kind of mix pups that you alude to (Mali-bulls), the consequences can be terrible for everyone, and will ultimatley bring the animals back to the shelter - or worse.

One more reason not to allow this litter to come to term.

I agree with Amber as well - this is a sad and tough decision, but extreme consequesces should not be forced on the dog (or any future puppies), when it was the owner's original responsability to keep her protected from situations like this in the first place. At this point, he needs to put her well being above all else.

~Natalya

Dave, unless you were really planning on spending all the money for health testing and think a litter from Daisy would be an excellent contribution to the dog world, I would spay her. Sustaining a bitch through the whole whelping ordeal is nothing nice. I don't know personally, but I'm sure many members here can tell you more about that. And as mentioned, *if* she is pregnant, they would be sired from a 100lb lab. Nothing nice for your little girl. I would go by it in this order:

1. Do whatever you can to find out if she's pregnant!
2. If she is, look for a vet to do the shot.
3. If no luck with that, then spay her and be done with the worrying.

By going through with the whelping you are potentially bringing onto yourself a number of uncertain problems, way worse than the 1 problem you have now. I used to be all for sterilizing pets, but now, after Leerburg, I understand some animals should not be sterilized because of the amazing offspring they contribute for working. Unless Daisy is definitely one of those dogs, I'd spay her.

Good luck

 Quote: carol boche

 Quote: carol boche

While I see your point and agree somewhat, wouldn't it be safe or "okay" to euthanize all but one or two in order for the bitch to rear a pup or two rather than have 12 (possible) Mal/Lab crosses to find homes for?


I am just trying to broaden my way of thinking here.
Thanks

My question still stands.....

Carol, I understand where you're coming from, and adding more unwanted pups to the world, with Mal blood or not, is something to be avoided, for sure.

That's why I think it is in the best interest of the bitch's health and the general pet population to not have these pups at all: injection or spaying.

The OP didn't sound like he ever planned on breeding her, and to be honest, if there is an unaltered male just a fence away, then there is a good chance this could happen again. Spaying will prevent the physical stress on the bitch, prevent the euthanization of newly born pups, and prevent future accidental breedings.

Spaying at 9 months isn't ideal, but "ideal" left the building when the two dogs met.

 Quote: carol boche

I am just trying to broaden my way of thinking here.
Thanks

 Quote: amber morgan

Carol, I understand where you're coming from, and adding more unwanted pups to the world, with Mal blood or not, is something to be avoided, for sure.

That's why I think it is in the best interest of the bitch's health and the general pet population to not have these pups at all: injection or spaying.

The OP didn't sound like he ever planned on breeding her, and to be honest, if there is an unaltered male just a fence away, then there is a good chance this could happen again. Spaying will prevent the physical stress on the bitch, prevent the euthanization of newly born pups, and prevent future accidental breedings.

Spaying at 9 months isn't ideal, but "ideal" left the building when the two dogs met.

This all makes perfect sense to me and I am glad that I was "in on" this thread as I have not only learned something valuable but also have a new outlook on a situation like this. Thanks

 Quote: Alex Corral

1. Do whatever you can to find out if she's pregnant!
2. If she is, look for a vet to do the shot.
3. If no luck with that, then spay her and be done with the worrying.

Just want to mention that #1 is not an option. If you wait long enough to tell she is pregnant, it is too late to do the shot. So just start with #2 and go from there. The pregnancy test options out there for dogs don't exist before 3-4 weeks into a pregnancy, which is near half cooked!

Whelping puppies can be great or it can be the biggest nightmare you have ever had. You never know which it is going to be and have to be prepared for the worst regardless.

No one has posed my question.

This bitch was out of sight for three minutes before your wife peeked over the fence. A tie lasts around fifteen minutes.

It is very possible this Lab got on top of her, tried for a minute or two, wasn't getting anywhere/couldn't make contact/your bitch warned him off/whatever, and he gave up.

Unless the times are off, as in you or your wife is giving us a very loose estimate... it doesn't sound like a mating took place, right?