Wow, a 30 minute sit-down/stay out of sight for a 9 month old pup seems to me a VERY high expectation for that age. I'm a total novice so most of this is new to me.

Sarah,
Remeber that EVERYTHING goes back to the training that you have instilled INTO your dog. I have an 8 month old GSD that was doing a 30 minute sit/down stay at 6 months. I have a 7 month old Dutch that will do a sit/down until you release him, no matter how long.

Again, it depends on your training, and level of confidence you show towards your dog. I am a firm believer that training is not playing. There are training sessions where not a second is spent on anything but training, and then there are play sessions, with mild corrections if needed.

Always remember that when training dogs, they are smarter than we are. You just have to show them the way that you want and EXPECT them to be done.

I would never expect a puppy o f6-9 months old to do a down or sit out of sight at all, let alone for 30 minutes. I don't know how you would do this without lots of corrections and compulsion. I personally don't choose to train in this manner. Could I train a young dog/puppy to do a 30 long down stay? sure I could, but the question is what methods would I have to employ to get this level of duration?

I don't see any benefit to long stays for puppies, because at6- 9 months old I am working on relationship, building drive and positions and not so so much worried about duration. I have owned many dogs in my life and can only think of a couple that were mentally mature enough to hold a stay for more than several minutes without a reminder or correction. You only get so many corrections in the life of your dog, I really do not want to be demanding so much until they are a bit older.

IMO training IS playing, and the attitude that goes along with play is willingness and a happy attitude. If training becomes a chore, then not only will my dog not want to do it, but I likely will not want to either.

you can show dogs what you want in many ways, and the more experience I get the more I realize less is more. You can allow your dog to think and figure things out and congratulate him for being right or you can correct him for every wrong choice he makes. There are gray areas in between but I find learning progresses much faster if the dog is allowed to figure things out without fear of being corrected in the learning stage.

Sorry to be off topic, but I feel that this is important.

Ok Jery, you say a 30 min sit stay? I'd never put a dog in the sit position for a half hour. and as far as expecting a 30 min out of site down for 9 month old pups, well....... that one actually brought a smile, lol

Sorry Cindy, we were posting at the same time

 Quote: Al Curbow

Sorry Cindy, we were posting at the same time

Let me re-phrase mt comment.

My dogs can and will do a sit/down stay as long as I ask them to. Do I do that every training session, Naw...There are times when it is necessary that your dog/pup need to know "simple" things like a long sit/stay.

The old saying applies to dog training.."You will OLNY get out what you put in"..Those that dont think that a 6/9 or any age pup can and will, ON HIS OWN if TRAINED correctly will do it, need to look at and evaluate their training principles.

For those that say "I could never expect my 6/9 month old to do a sit/stay for 30 minutes" are usually the same ones that asks questions such as :how do I get my dog to listen now that he is 16 months old. Why is he so dog/people aggressive...Again, it goes hand in hand..Start off young, and get life long results.

I am a believer in showing a pup/dog what you expect, and then expecting him to do it. That doesnt mean correct/jerk/yank until he is do it. That means that you as the head pack leader shows and explains to him what you want done and how to do it.

 Quote: jery ledford

Let me re-phrase mt comment.



The old saying applies to dog training.."You will OLNY get out what you put in"..Those that dont think that a 6/9 or any age pup can and will, ON HIS OWN if TRAINED correctly will do it, need to look at and evaluate their training principles.

That's true about every endeavor in life actually.

So I am curious, what are YOUR training principles and techniques? Also, I am not sure what venue or program you are training for? What a LEO wants for obedience in a dog differs greatly from what a AKC obedience competitor would like and the training is very different because the end result has a very different purpose.

Many people on this board are training for sport, some are LEO and some just want well trained companions. I am not saying one is better than the other, but the training is in many cases quite different. I have found that you can get better results that cause much less overall stress on the career of the dog by breaking things down into smaller bits and not hurrying until the dog is mentally capable of handling the inevitable pressure. Training is stressful, under the best of circumstances.

Thanks.

Cindy,
you are very correct when you say that dependent on what your dog will be used for is dependent on what and how you train.

I am a LEO and yes we train in a manner that suits patrol/tracking/narc dogs. With that said, we also train as to have an obedient dog that listens well, performs under any amount of stress/pressure, and that above all, likes what he is asked to do because he enjoys his work.

I have trained several Police K9's and have and still do train with 3 area K9 officers on a weekly basis.

I dont want you or anyone else to think that my way of training is the only way, as I know better. While reading this site for a year, I have come across many comments from people that in my opinion, shouldnt be giving advice, as they are way off base in the way "I" perceive a dog to learn.

I have had dogs that didnt come around as fast as others, and with those, yes you may not get a 6/9 month old to do a long sit stay, or he may not be capable of clearing a 6' wall "my 7 month old Dutch will clear 7'", but again, "my" belief is that your dog will show the best and the worst of your training.

My training principles are: Start the puppy off as early as possible..Show the puppy the correct and in-correct way to do things, without letting him continue to figure it out on his own as you are not showing him right from wrong..Build a relationship between you and the dog that will carry over into his training..Always reward a dog for what you asked hom to do after he has done it correctly. Never reward when they refuse or do it half #$%.. I could type for days about ho I do things, but that is just my way..It works for me and the many dogs I have trained.

this site needs opinions for all types as that is what the beginner will learn from..NOT input from those that get defensive when someone else says something that they dont think works..Open your eyes people.

I would be glad to speak to ya anytime via email if you have any questions or comments good or bad.

I don't think anyone thinks that your way of training is the only way Just like my way isn't either.

I don't believe anyone on here was getting defensive, but questioning methods that many trainers consider "old school". Hey, it works and a lot of people still use tried and true methods, me included.

I have spent a lot of time training around LEO, for the last 23 years...gosh, I am getting old. Good dog training is good training no matter the program. I have had the pleasure of seeing many good canine handlers, but a lot more mediocre or poor examples. Sad but true, and the canine handlers I know will be the first to tell you that it's very frustrating.


I agree with much of what you say in your philosophy but I really disagree with one key point. I would think that for a LEO this would be a key. I know if I were a police officer I would want a dog to be able to problem solve without fear of being stopped.

I agree to start them early, my dogs start at 7 weeks. I think it's very important to let puppies work out problems, say nothing or withhold reward when they are wrong and have a big party when they are right. I also only reward when they are right and have pretty high criteria for what will earn a reward, based on the pups level of training and mental maturity. I believe that dogs that are allowed to problem solve without pressure, hold up better under stress for the long term and give a better try through their careers. I no longer lure dogs into the behaviors I want, if I can avoid it as the dogs that try to get the problem figured out on their own seem to be faster learners in the long run and have much more confidence when the work gets difficult. These dogs tend to look to the handler less for reassurance or help when they are out working in the "real world" That's a plus for any dog but especially a police dog where lives can be on the line.

I also don't agree with allowing a 7 month old dog jumping 7 feet just "because he can". I have Mals and I am currently training an 8 month old from my own breeding program. The dog shows incredible jumping ability, more than I have ever seen from such a young dog but I look at the big picture and would prefer him to be sound at age 9 as opposed to letting him do something that isn't the best choice for his skeletal health.

Through all of this, I am an advocate for the dog first. I don't care much for "my dog can do this at 6 months" bravado. Like I said before, my dog COULD do a lot of things right now at 8 months old but why? and at what cost to the long term career of the dog?

This site does need all kinds of opinions, and I really enjoy hearing them all. I learn something every day, even if it's what NOT to do with my dog!