 Re: diff between pp and sport training on the bite
[Re: Al Curbow ]
#153263 - 08/26/2007 04:16 PM |
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Michael.West
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Re: diff between pp and sport training on the bite
[Re: Michael West ]
#153264 - 08/26/2007 04:27 PM |
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"Use a gun."
Sure, you can do that. But that doesn't really have anything to do with Al's point. Having a gun is great, but isn't a dog a great "buy-you-a-few-more-seconds barrier"? It's not much use to have a dog you can't ever bring in the house. It's great when you're out, but wouldn't you like that same level of added security/deterrence in the house? I would. I don't leave my dogs unattended in the house, but if I say "platz/wait" he'll do it, and I can sleep better  . Would I let him "hang out" in the house? H-E-double hockey sticks, NO!
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Re: diff between pp and sport training on the bite
[Re: Jenni Williams ]
#153266 - 08/26/2007 04:28 PM |
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Along the lines of what Al said, I do get a little tired of people assuming you can't have a PPD w/house manners. Or, if you claim that you do, your dog's "toughness"  is immediately questioned. Can't have a "real" dog who can also come inside...<rolling eyes> I think ultimately it's kind of an ego issue for someone to think that their dog is just soooo serious and hard and tough and all those other adjectives that it can't live in a house. Almost like Pit Bull folks who say their dogs are just too tough to be taught how to politely walk on a leash...  . House manners are merely a control issue. I don't think you should have a PPD without enough control to live in the house.
If Michael was talking about PSDs/MWDs, that may be a little different, as they have somewhat different defining roles.
hah OK OK lets not get what i said confused now 
I am not saying a Working Dog is weaker due to house manners. Hell half the time i cant tell if my dog is a working dog or a pet.
But i am saying i am not a fan of it. If it is a working dog its a working dog not a pet. Not saying a working dog cant socialize with people but to much of it makes the dog complacent.
Just my personal opinion and style of training. I am sure any personal protection dog will bite just as hard as mine
Michael.West
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Re: diff between pp and sport training on the bit
[Re: Jenni Williams ]
#153267 - 08/26/2007 04:35 PM |
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"Use a gun."
Sure, you can do that. But that doesn't really have anything to do with Al's point. Having a gun is great, but isn't a dog a great "buy-you-a-few-more-seconds barrier"? It's not much use to have a dog you can't ever bring in the house. It's great when you're out, but wouldn't you like that same level of added security/deterrence in the house? I would. I don't leave my dogs unattended in the house, but if I say "platz/wait" he'll do it, and I can sleep better . Would I let him "hang out" in the house? H-E-double hockey sticks, NO!
Jenni,
I was addressing this question by Al.
"Mike, if you're not a fan of mixing a dog for personal protection as a house dog, what happens if you have a home invasion?"
You can bet if i am in my house and it is getting broken into i am going to the maximum level of force as needed. By all means if you have a well trained protection dog then use what assets you have. All i said was my view on it, not saying its right or wrong im just saying i wont be doing it.
Sheesh, looks like i stirred up a hornets nest with that comment.
Michael.West
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Re: diff between pp and sport training on the bit
[Re: Michael West ]
#153272 - 08/26/2007 04:57 PM |
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No, no hornet's nest. What I'm saying is not having a working dog become a complacent pet---we're (Al and I) just asking why a PPD can't have house manners. House manners does not mean allowing people to crawl all over it (or even pet it for that matter). I simply mean knowing not to lift his leg on the couches, tear up the bedding, eat pets (mine needs work in this area), and in general, behave in a manner consistent with an animal that you don't want to kill.
I knew what you meant w/the gun comment, but I think that your definition of house manners and mine are different, and THAT'S what I was trying to address. The dog I'm thinking of is not what a normal person would call a "pet." Outsiders do not touch him; he makes it clear through body language and expression that he doesn't care for it. But, if I say "It's ok; I see it" he will lie in the chair and watch quietly. Bringing a dog in the house and making him behave normally does not make him a pet by default. That's all, sir! 
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Re: diff between pp and sport training on the bit
[Re: Jenni Williams ]
#153274 - 08/26/2007 05:08 PM |
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No, no hornet's nest. What I'm saying is not having a working dog become a complacent pet---we're (Al and I) just asking why a PPD can't have house manners. House manners does not mean allowing people to crawl all over it (or even pet it for that matter). I simply mean knowing not to lift his leg on the couches, tear up the bedding, eat pets (mine needs work in this area), and in general, behave in a manner consistent with an animal that you don't want to kill.
I knew what you meant w/the gun comment, but I think that your definition of house manners and mine are different, and THAT'S what I was trying to address. The dog I'm thinking of is not what a normal person would call a "pet." Outsiders do not touch him; he makes it clear through body language and expression that he doesn't care for it. But, if I say "It's ok; I see it" he will lie in the chair and watch quietly. Bringing a dog in the house and making him behave normally does not make him a pet by default. That's all, sir!
Once again i am a victim of miscommunication! lol.
I am talking about when people have a pet that plays around with there kids and then teach there dog PP work.
hm, Guess i should have stated that to start with.
Michael.West
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Re: diff between pp and sport training on the bit
[Re: Michael West ]
#153275 - 08/26/2007 05:15 PM |
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Mike, to me it's just very simple to teach house manners. A violent home invasion happened recently about 20 miles from my town, 2 children and a dead wife, a nice civil dog in the house might have bought them a few precious minutes, to get their gun or run out of the house. The same dog outside in a kennel, well....... I've got 2 civil dogs that live in my house, it's just another layer of security,
AL
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Re: diff between pp and sport training on the bit
[Re: Michael West ]
#153276 - 08/26/2007 05:16 PM |
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Hehe....Mike, I can asure you that Al has a PPD that bites for real and can stop a determined attacker. Plus it's a good house dog - a *rare* combo*.
And as far as "get a gun", my dog's entire reason for being is to give me enough time to get to one of my firearms so that I can repeal an attacker. Once I'm armed, I can take over....
This protection advice has been given by me several dozen times here in the past, and a lot of people have taken it to heart.....very satisfying for me, maybe it'll save someone from harm.
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Re: diff between pp and sport training on the bit
[Re: Michael West ]
#153277 - 08/26/2007 05:24 PM |
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I am talking about when people have a pet that plays around with there kids and then teach there dog PP work.
hm, Guess i should have stated that to start with.
 That's pretty much what I thought you meant, which is why I brought it up. Semantics is my favorite game.
I guess it all depends on how you view them. They're not impenetrable superbeings; they're a great barrier, like I said, to get you enough time to go for a more deadly weapon  , or to call for help.
While it may be rare to find one who has enough control on him to live indoors, it's not impossible, and your reasoning for not wanting it doesn't necessarily have to apply. Capiche? You just may be my new favorite debate buddy.
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Re: diff between pp and sport training on the bit
[Re: Will Rambeau ]
#153278 - 08/26/2007 05:25 PM |
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Hehe....Mike, I can asure you that Al has a PPD that bites for real and can stop a determined attacker. Plus it's a good house dog - a *rare* combo*.
And as far as "get a gun", my dog's entire reason for being is to give me enough time to get to one of my firearms so that I can repeal an attacker. Once I'm armed, I can take over....
This protection advice has been given by me several dozen times here in the past, and a lot of people have taken it to heart.....very satisfying for me, maybe it'll save someone from harm.
heh Never said anything about Al's dog, i am sure he could :-D
Now what you said in the bold. is the simple statement i was trying to make
Michael.West
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