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I do not hold dogs by their collars unless I absolutely have to.

Why? (I really do want to know. It was pure convenience, because I let him run for a bit without a lead, as we were in an 800 acre game land. I didn't have his lead, just his favorite bumper. )

I didn't have my watch on, either, but my guess would be somewhere in the 2-4 minute range. He actually surprised me; he came back to me, like he was saying "Hey! Can you help me with this?" and when I didn't move, he went off to look again, and it looked like he was scenting it, but not making a connection between the scent and the bumper. I know that sounds odd, but that is what it looked like, given wind direction.

Just my preference really. I think that collars are for attaching a lead. I have also seen handlers get their hands twisted into a collar with a high drive dog that really wanted to be let go. I have also seen a handler that I know get bitten doing this as well.

I like holding a pup in my arms, loosely, and whispering to them as they watch or wait to be let go. I whisper things like "watch it" or "paus auf" and then when I open my arms I say whatever search command I have chosen for that dog.

It pretty much depends on the dog....if the dog is high drive and wanting to get away to go after the toy or person that ran off, I will put keep them on lead. I really do not want to be knelt down with my face next to a dog that is young, inexperienced and in drive.......if the dog is more mellow then kneeling and talking to them a bit seems to help build confidence.
My personal preference is having a dog that goes nuts to go after whatever it is we are using.

I like my dogs to post out to the end of the lead, if I have a dog that is out at the end of the lead and going nuts, I can pretty much rely on the hunt and prey drive being good, if the dog walks forward but will not put tension on the line I know there is drive building to be done.

It is not a 100% guarantee on any dog, but a good indicator.

Hi Gayle,

It sounds like you are better off than a lot of other people I know. Its unfortunate that your choice of search area had a negative impact on your pup. I'm sure at some point he was thinking that this is no fun at all. Had it been a cleaner search area then he may have continued until he had his prize.
Remember....the dog always has to win so its up to you to make sure that happens. Try it somewhere else more dog friendly. And, I'm sure he already has the connection between the bumper and its odor. He just had an unfriendly wall of vegetation keeping him from physically connecting the two.

Howard

 Quote: carol boche

I like holding a pup in my arms, loosely, and whispering to them as they watch or wait to be let go. I whisper things like "watch it" or "paus auf" and then when I open my arms I say whatever search command I have chosen for that dog........if the dog is more mellow then kneeling and talking to them a bit seems to help build confidence.

This helps explain what happens to me sometimes. (Hand caught in collar. Yup. But also, if I kneel down and hold him in my arms I can sometimes settle him, but potentially at the risk of a nip to the face.) I'm learning. Slowly.

 Quote: Howard Knauf

Hi Gayle,
Its unfortunate that your choice of search area had a negative impact on your pup. I'm sure at some point he was thinking that this is no fun at all. Had it been a cleaner search area then he may have continued until he had his prize.
Remember....the dog always has to win so its up to you to make sure that happens. Howard

Howard, I read your comment, and am still shaking my head at my ignorance as a trainer. I know he has to win, and I set it up wrong, even though I know better. When I got out to the game land I discovered the cover was different than I remembered, and instead of rethinking it, I just went ahead. Augh!

I hadn't planned to take him out there again today, but may, just so I can set up a good experience for him. I'm feeling sorry for the pup having such a dimwit for a mom! I'm sure I do stuff like this all the time, which may be one of the reasons he is so nippy even with correction , and so on. I think I can make it disappear in leaves.

Everyone makes mistakes. Don't beat yourself up over it. Learn from it and you will become a better trainer.

Howard

Gayle...

I am with Howard. Learn from it, and you WILL become a better handler.
When I first started training SAR I thought I would never get it right. But, I stuck with it through the frustrations, sweat and tears and it got easier.

You sound like your on the right track and doing what you need to do.
Even semi-short grass will work when just starting out, throw the "toy" and then turn in a circle with your dog, and then send him to "hunt" for it. This way he knows the general area that it landed in and not the exact spot.

 Quote: carol boche

Even semi-short grass will work when just starting out, throw the "toy" and then turn in a circle with your dog, and then send him to "hunt" for it. This way he knows the general area that it landed in and not the exact spot.

Excellent idea if you don't have the "perfect" conditions. I'm going to put that one in my pocket.

Howard

 Quote: carol boche

Gayle...

I am with Howard. Learn from it, and you WILL become a better handler.
When I first started training SAR I thought I would never get it right. But, I stuck with it through the frustrations, sweat and tears and it got easier.

You sound like your on the right track and doing what you need to do.
Even semi-short grass will work when just starting out, throw the "toy" and then turn in a circle with your dog, and then send him to "hunt" for it. This way he knows the general area that it landed in and not the exact spot.

Great idea, Carole. And thanks too for the encouragement. I took him out again today. I tossed the bumper in a direction where he would have an easier time going after it, which he did. In about 45 seconds he found it, and brought it back to me. I tried it a second time, and when he found it he ran off with "his" prize.

It does seem that his prey drive is super strong, while his hunt drive is there, just not so overpowering. I don't know what this is, but he also has a really strong desire to explore while running and sniffing the ground and air in a fairly tight quartering pattern - this is his idea of a good outing, one he could do for hours if I let him. I think this may be the basis of bird dog abilities once I get him working with birds, so is a form of hunting, but for no object in particular at this point.

I've got an appointment with a good pointing dog trainer next week, so I hope that will help me learn to read my dog better. It will also give Chakotay his first experience with birds. Should be interesting.