Quote: Kori Bigge

...he's been eating a completely raw diet for 3 or 4 days straight now. LOL! His ear got me to switch all the way over to raw (at least for now, and probably forever). Who'd a thunk it???

A HUGE congrats, Kori, ears notwithstanding !!!!

 Quote: Jenni Williams

Also, I've noticed my raw fed dogs never had issues w/ears, but kibble-fed dogs do.

Sorry, but this just isn't true. Nutrition plays a role in ears standing but genetics are the biggest component in soft ears.

I have been feeding raw since 1994 and Kelly's dog in the post where she mentions taping the ears is from my breeding program. The mother of her dog comes from a line of dogs with a history of soft ears. Kelly's dog has been raw fed since 'before' conception and several of the dogs in that litter had soft ears also.

So maybe YOUR raw fed dogs haven't had an issue, but it's probably because they don't have the genetic propensity for soft ears.

whatever gets people to feed raw is fine by me, but the ear issue is one that can only be influenced by diet to a certain point.

Edited by Cindy Easton Rhodes (12/28/2007 05:07 PM)
Edit reason: forgot to add some stuff!

Cindy is 100% correct here.

 Quote: cindy easton rhodes

 Quote: jenni williams

Also, I've noticed my raw fed dogs never had issues w/ears, but kibble-fed dogs do.

So maybe YOUR raw fed dogs haven't had an issue, but it's probably because they don't have the genetic propensity for soft ears.

Whatever gets people to feed raw is fine by me, but the ear issue is one that can only be influenced by diet to a certain point.

 Quote: connie sutherland

 Quote: jenni williams

Also, I've noticed my raw-fed dogs never had issues w/ears, but kibble-fed dogs do.

We talked about this once at a club "after-chat," and that was pretty widely agreed-upon.

While anecdotal, as has been admitted several times, there does seem to be a connection between speed in standing and diet. Or at least I am not the only one to notice a connection. I did say "my raw fed dogs never had issues." By mine, I mean my personal dogs and the one litter I raised (who had no pre-dispostion that I know of for soft ears).

Soft ears, I think, are a bit different than ears that are just slow to stand, or don't you think so? I think Kori's dog has a soft ear; he's 5 or 6mos old, I think, and has one that's bent in the middle. Is that what you call that a soft ear? My only ear experience has been with my "middle child." He and his 5 raw-weaned siblings had perfect ears from the get-go. No drooping even during teething. His 2 littermates who were fed a mix of raw and kibble took weeks longer for their ears to stand. They weren't bent like Kodee's; they just flopped over like lab ears for a few weeks. I may be way-off, but I think a genetically soft ear is different than ears slow to stand, which I do believe is influenced by nutrition. Of course, like everything else, it's a combination of genetics and diet, IMO.

Any other breeders out there with input or experience either way? I am not a breeder, (although I keep ending up with puppies, lol) and have only had experience with dogs who were not genetically predisposed to ear problems. I have never had one whose ears weren't up by about 16weeks, but I do know of lines with ear issues (who cares if they can do the work!), and these are not the dogs I'm referring to when I say I think ears can be helped along by a good raw diet with plenty of calcium.

DELETED

I cannot begin to explain your recent issues with everything I say, but I will respond to every point so that others don't think I mean what you try to make me out to say.

Of course Cindy is a breeder! I asked for other breeders' experiences as well. I forgot a word and edited immediately. A TYPO! SHEESH. Is it a crime to be curious if others have noticed a connection? (which has already been noted. See Connie's post a few pages back. I am NOT the only one to notice this!)

OMG!!! They're not puppies out of MY DOGS which you know!!! They're OTHER PEOPLE'S LITTERS THAT I ENDED UP RAISING. You are just trying to make me look bad for whatever reason. You know as well as anyone that I have never bred a litter! We have talked in PMs about this when you were asking me what to say on your guarantee; I told you what MY dogs had on theirs, and I told you I DON'T BREED and tried to give you good suggestions for Jesea's litter.

Why must you turn every single thread into a hate-fest toward me? Does it help Kori with Kodee's ear?

'We talked about this once at a club "after-chat," and that was pretty widely agreed-upon.'

Yeah, but I think my fewer-than-a-dozen club members' remarks can be considered 100% anecdotal compared to the several hundred pointy ears Cindy and Ed have had up-close-and-personal experience with.

Oh, Connie, absolutely. Anecdotal 100%. Interesting connection, though, don't you think? It has been mentioned by others I've heard as well, which is really what got me thinking about it in terms of Xander and his sibs.

I want to know if Cindy or Ed or anyone else whose had a bunch of litters agrees that slow-standing ears are different than truly soft ears. I dunno. It would seem that Kodee has a soft ear, and I know a Mal line who has a lot of soft ears. It seems different than normal ears that just take a while to stand, or don't you think so? (Connie, Cindy, Ed, or anyone else).

 Quote: Jenni Williams

absolutely. Anecdotal 100%..... I want to know if Cindy or Ed or anyone else whose had a bunch of litters agrees that slow-standing ears are different than truly soft ears. I dunno. It would seem that Kodee has a soft ear, and I know a Mal line who has a lot of soft ears. It seems different than normal ears that just take a while to stand, or don't you think so? (Connie, Cindy, Ed, or anyone else).

I have no idea. I admit that I was just parroting somethng I heard puppy folks say at club.

So if Kodee does have a "soft ear", and that's different than an ear that's slow to stand, would his ear never go the rest of the way up if I didn't tape it? (His soft ear is up at the base, but that's pretty much as far as it seems willing to go on it's own.) Just curious...doesn't make much difference I guess since I'm taping it now, and I admit I am relieved to be doing something about it, but I just wondered. Hopefully it will work.