i too was fasinated with wolf calls and predation of sheep. I hope farmers are serious at looking at that type of prevention, instead of shooting wolves.
THe guy was radical, I didn't know he cooked the organ meat first. Sadly he did loose his family over his obsession. It was great to get a close look at pack family structure. I did fear for him but was glad to see he was smart enough to know when his role as leader was over.

I have seen the show and I thought what he did was awesome. I mean we humans teach dogs how to live with our rules, but he is teaching wolf pups how to live with their rules. It is amazing.

This fellow may be thought of by the wolves as the Alpha,
But what happens to him when he gets challenged for the leadership of the Pack by other wolves. is he going to leave before that happens or fight it out
Because one day it will arrive when he has to decide

Steve, if you read through all the posts it has already been established that he is no longer the alpha of the pack. He had to leave for several weeks and was replaced while he was gone. During his time with the wolves he did observe that the male that took over in his absence was a dominant male and that he would likely have problems in the future.

As general information..(not directed specifically at you, Steve) With wolves, battles of dominance occur primarily when the current alpha shows weakness of some sort, either old age, injury, or absence. An up and coming youngster may challenge the alpha given any opportunity, the trick for Shaun would be to not give such an opportunity. The confidence level of the alpha plays a huge role in the stability of the pack and how firm his position as alpha is. Otherwise he would not have been alpha at all once the other male reached sexual/mental maturity.

Not to say he was in no danger or would not have been attacked in challenge, but it was a risk he understood fully and completely from the start of this experiment with these wolves.

I understand skepticism from everyone if you have not seen the show, or even if you have. If that show or the information you read in this thread is all you have to go on to base your opinions of this man, there is nothing I can do to stop you from making harsh or rash judgments.

It is a pure and simple fact that Shaun Ellis knows more about wolves and wolf behavior than 99.99999999% of people on earth, including me. You may think he is crazy for doing what he did I can guarantee you that there are people that think we are crazy for training dogs to do bitework, or spitting treats from our mouths, or a million other things that they don't understand.

Everyone has opinions and I am not trying to reprimand anyone by any means, but this happens to be a man I admire and wish to meet to pick his brain some day. Guess it just gets under my skin to have him called a crackpot or a weirdo, or stupid, insane, and that the information he gathers is useless. Useless to people who don't care or are uninterested.. the same as I am uninterested in things like finding out how exactly snow flakes are formed. To me that seems strange or useless because I don't care and I believe it doesn't directly affect me. To me, spending money on that seems silly, even stupid, because I don't care. Doesn't mean in some way it isn't important or useful to research and I don't call the people who study snowflakes Dip**** hippies.

Meh. I ramble. Point being can we please avoid insults where they are not needed? That comment isn't directed at you Steve P. and I won't name names or place blame.

Yes Jennifer
I am not that naive that i have not read up on the habits of Wolves are or for that matter many other wild animals,
20 years ago i lived in an area with a four mile wood around me, i would go up into that wood a mile or sometimes more and i would watch the Fox Cubs and indeed Badger Cubs play, in fact i used to feed them by hand they got so used to me being there week in week out, i was too them one of them, Of course it was at night i used to go and watch these creatures, spending some five hours up there of a night right up too Dawn, this was in the spring and early summer
I have seen many sights more than most people have in my life time
Time well spent and very enjoyable it was,
As for the fellow with the wolves i do not say he is a krank, far from it, thats his way
I suppose some of you will think me a little mad sitting in the middle of a huge wood or Forest to be the right term for it in the night time watching wild life as i did and it went on for several years until i moved away, But i am far from being Mad

 Quote: steve strom

Wow, I sure hope this guy is taxpayer funded. The invaluable information and practical applications to improve everyone's lives is immeasurable.

Awwwww, come on, it, his research improves the relationship (or lack thereof) between human and wolf.....helps the ranchers and farmers keep them away so that they can make the money they work hard at bringing in. So it is immeasurable to them.

So, while it may not help *us* directly, it is helping people.

Here is another Leerburg thread on Shaun Ellis and his "Man Among Wolves" show for reference...

Leerburg Thread - Man Among Wolves on NGC

 Quote: mary roach

I have to agree that it sounds...well...strange. I like the relationship I have with dogs and other wildlife just fine. alot of those "live in the wild"shows seem like pub. stunt and drama king material. Not like serious science in action. thats just my cynical opinion though

yea the wolfs will be friendly to people sadly because of all the camera crew

I'm sorry Carol, I just think Marlin and Jim could figure out just as much without the theatrics and play acting.

 Quote: paul watson

 Quote: mary roach

I have to agree that it sounds...well...strange. I like the relationship I have with dogs and other wildlife just fine. alot of those "live in the wild"shows seem like pub. stunt and drama king material. Not like serious science in action. thats just my cynical opinion though

yea the wolfs will be friendly to people sadly because of all the camera crew

I don't know about friendly, tolerant maybe