Rick,

To be honest, that is what she gives her seminars for. I am not speaking for Roni at all, but why would she post it when she has clearly stated that her seminars discuss this and that she likes to make sure her clients have the correct and full information they need in order to do this correctly?

Pleae reread the previous post for clairification.
Roni

Weird...this is the first time anyone has outright refused to explain what they mean...I guess I don't understand why you aren't willing to just give me a skeleton of the method you use.

For instance, I taught Bella "up the stairs" by taking her to a jungle gym and sitting her at the base of the stairs. Then, I climed up the stairs, and turned around. I said the command, and at the same time I patted my leg which she knows means come close to me. After a while of confusion, she finally stepped up on the stairs, and I praised her all the way to me.

The basic method, then, would be to sit the dog at the base of the stairs, use a non-verbal cue to coax the dog to you, and praise when the dog does what you want. For any dog, I could use the same basic method, but still individualize it based on the dog. Perhaps the dog I am working with doesn't know that patting the leg means come close to me. If it knows a different non-verbal cue, I would use that. Maybe the reward is a tug or food instead of praise, but the method stays the same.

But since you won't provide any specifics it makes me wonder, would you go to a trainer that refused to explain their basic way of teaching?

I see her refusal (if you want to use that word) as a protectionary measure for all dogs. What I get from her post is she is unable to say x + y = z because that is not the equation for all cases. I do not believe she is withholding valuable info but leary of someone jumping into something that is not right for their particular breed.

That was my take on the post. You want the blueprints and there are not any to give. EACH IS INDIVIDUALLY TALORED. Her refusal to elaborate, to me, speeks volumes on her ethics as a trainer and truely looking out for the welfare of the dogs. IMO.

 Quote: Rick Miller

But since you won't provide any specifics it makes me wonder, would you go to a trainer that refused to explain their basic way of teaching?

Absolutely!!
One thing.....she is not explaining it OVER THE INTERNET due to the fact that it may be applied incorrectly and potentially damage the relationship between the handler and the dog. She is not refusing to explain it at all. Big difference.

Training a dog to go up and down stairs is much different than introducing an e-collar and using it properly with her methods.

LOL, I confess, I've been trying to piece it together and get something free for nothing.

 Quote: Rick Miller

Could you further explain how you use the pulsing to teach?

My interpretation of this is she is vibrating the dog while giving it something it really wants, my guess would be the dog will soon understand the vibrating pulse is associated with a posative thing and react the same as it does for something it really wants...the amazing part is she brings in a trigger that was useless before this training technique and adds value to it, thus having yet another way to control the dog...how cool is that. Of course I may have understood it all wrong...

I have known Roni for over 2years and have had her out to my training facility in Minnesota for 3 different seminars and she knows her stuff. She does not try to hide anything from anyone and gives away alot more that what she charges for. She would be very rich if she charged for even part of what she has taught and help people with.

I think it is just hard to explain what she does in a few short sentences. She is very busy and takes time out of her day to come on here and try to help as much as she can.

Rick...The pulse is not the vibrate button it is the stim button on your dogs working level, which for most dogs usually is around 17 - 21 on a dogtra 200. She will tap the button as she is giving the verbal command to the dog. Sit,Sit,Sit (as she is tapping the button 3 times also). This is done in the learning phase. The dog is learning what the stim means along with what the verbal word also means. Hope I explained this ok. It is much easier to show than try to explain.

Corinne

Rick, you're way off base here - I often don't go into really specific details regarding bite training because I know that internet communication is not the way to teach things that may have a bad outcome.
I teach students much better face-to-face, as any good instructor does. You should be more worried about "internet experts" that seem to have a lot of knowledge ( but it's all book learned ) but lack any real experience in the subject - you can find those bozos *everywhere*.

As far as Roni goes, I know her personally and know her to be a skilled and caring trainer. People should count themselves lucky to attend her seminars.

As an example, Bernhard Flinks doesn't go into "specifics" over the internet ( as you call it ) - does that mean his seminars aren't worth going to?

 Quote: corinne olson

Rick...The pulse is not the vibrate button it is the stim button on your dogs working level, which for most dogs usually is around 17 - 21 on a dogtra 200. She will tap the button as she is giving the verbal command to the dog. Sit,Sit,Sit (as she is tapping the button 3 times also). This is done in the learning phase. The dog is learning what the stim means along with what the verbal word also means. Hope I explained this ok. It is much easier to show than try to explain.

Corinne

See, that wasn't so bad, was it?!

I am not asking for an individualized evaluation of my dog. At first I was simply interesed in the idea that the stim could be pleasent to the dog. I was thinking...cool, another brag I can use for the Dogtra ecollar I have!

But then, Roni explained that the stim is not nessisarily "pleasent," but better than the Innotek stim. That's fine, but then later:

 Quote: roni hoff

I find most people are substituting the e collar for a pinch collar correction. Does it work. Yep. I like
the Dogtra units because I can fine tune the stim to not interrupt the dog's thought process, but i can deliver a rythemic
pulse, in conjunction with a primary reinforcer and body language
to teach.

This raised an issue to me because I have Ed's ecollar training for pet owners. In this video, he describes a method called "escape training" which sounded similar to what Roni is describing here. Ed says that while escape training works, he doesn't like it. It has to do with the dog thinking that it turns off the stem. The point Roni makes about the way that the dog percieves the correction being very important is similar to what Ed is talking about when he says that he doesn't want the dog to think it is turning off the stem, rather that the handler is in control of the stem. From Corinne's explanation, the method sounds different than the way Ed describes escape or avoidance training because in avoidance training, the handler gives a continuous stim until the dog complies, whereas this method seems to be a short stims.

So, maybe Roni's method is not escape training, but how would I know for sure if she won't explain a little about the training? Furthermore, I do know the method that many of the people use because they are more than willing to share techniques that work for them. (Norman...I'm talkin' to you! ) It is much easier to evaluate advice when I know the basic philosophy of where someone is coming from. This is a training board, and I am trying to develop a style, too.

Will, is there a place on the internet that Bernhard Flinks posts? I would love to read some of his advice...