Sarah- until you get the help you need with him and/or the DVDs/books and information, keep him on a muzzle at all times that he is outside of your yard or home. If he is in public I recommend for the safety of all involved that you keep his muzzle on until this can be resolved.

For control alone I might recommend the prong if used when he has the muzzle on so that he does not come up leash or lash out if a correction is ill-timed. Ultimately a DD collar is best but the use of these requires enough strength to physically lift the dog off its front feet and control the dog through any thrashing etc. Since you have stated you are not able to control him a DD collar might be moot unless you can get the assistance of a trainer or behaviorist experienced in large aggressive dogs.

If you take him for walks before you get the books or DVDs or trainer etc, with the muzzle on him you might want to consider having someone to help you walk him or just not walking him until you can get assistance.

Im talking to a trainer who deals with aggressive dogs on other side of the country.

Im going to have him checked out first etc to make sure he is who he says then talk to him some more.

If i ever have another dog in the future EVER, i will get a 6 week puppy from a breeder and make sure i get a more submissive one. you can usually tell by puppy pecking order.(a lab most likely)

Im not making this mistake again lol.

I use an easy leader on bruce, which is how i have control over him, if i put it on his collar im too weak to hold him.

When i went to town and he had his muzzle on and i was walking with him on a collar and he dragged me.

I think i should rename him brutuce lol. My mum calls him bruno like he some small puppy and i call him bruce because its manly but i think brutuce suits him more hehe.

This trainer is called darren debenham, lives in burgess hill, near brighton. But he is a self imployed person without a web page. calls himself k9 security. im just weary because he has no site

Sarah, a prong would be far better for control than an easy leader/gentle leader, but I still recommend a muzzle for him. It doesn't matter if you have intentions of him being around people or purposefully taking him around people, if he is outside of a yard or the confines of your home, if he breaks loose from you and he has a muzzle on he cannot do much damage.

You you described him as barking and lunging and pulling towards several people during your walk, this is a red flag. I don't want you, him, or anyone else hurt that is why I suggested the muzzle for public places or no walking until you have the information, equipment, and help to start working on his aggression.

Since he drags you with a normal collar, I would wait to take him into public until you have a better means of control.

Has he ever bitten anyone?

No, the only times he tried is with a muzzle on. he has come close though.

The fact that this dog is too strong for you to handle makes me very hesitant to give you any advice on how to correct the behavior.

If you get into a fight with a dominant dog, you need to make sure that you are in a position to win that fight to gain or maintain dominance over the dog. If you are not physically strong enough to bring the dog into submission, then while muzzling the dog will protect you from getting bitten if he comes up the leash, it won't help you to win the fight if you are not strong enough to do so. The dog still wins, and that is Bad.

I also don't want to reccomend a prong collar, because a prong can escalate the aggression, and also redirect it onto you.

The gentle leader is absolutely 100% useless as far as "fixing" problems, but if this is a way for you to handle the dog physically, then I dont see a problem with it as far as keeping everyone a little bit safer.

Ideally you would use a dominant dog collar on a dog like this, but again, this requires the physical strength to use it. Either the dog will submit easily, or the dog will fight you. If he fights the correction then you better have the strength to keep it up. Most people do not have the heart to do what is neccesary when a dog is fighting, and then the dog wins once again.

You might have mentioned it somewhere, but I am going to assume you are in the UK. Try sending Gary Garner on this forum a private message, he is in the UK and might have some idea as to who you might be able to seek assistance from on this matter.

Follow the information on establishing pack structure and save up for the DVD's that have been mentioned in this thread. Bare in mind you will also be paying for international shipping costs and probably also import duty. As Jennifer said, dont bring the dog into public. Dont put the dog into situations where he can act like this. In the dogs mind he can already get away with this behavior. Once a dog develops a habit then it is hard to break. Continuing to allow the dog to behave this way will only further set into his mind that he is allowed to do this stuff. Avoiding these situations until you can get together with an experienced trainer that isn't shy about dealing with dominant and aggressive dogs is important. Generally you can make a huge improvement over a dog like this in just a few days, but handling the dog correctly is a critical part.

Do you own a crate? Crate the dog more, exercise more, and practice the NILIF method. Nothing In Life Is Free: the dog must perform some act of obedience for you for everything he wants to do. Before feeding, before leaving the crate, before you open the door to take him out for a walk, etc. Teach the dog that you control his life.

From now on, his life is on-leash 100% even in the house, if he's not on a leash he is in the crate.

Thanks Mike. I was hesitant to recommend a prong but it is better than a head collar or no control(flat collar) with muzzle. I would like to ammend that I left out in the most recent post that IF you have a prong on him have the muzzle on as well, I don't recommend using the prong on him without a muzzle. I said it in another post but I wanted to reiterate that. Much better just not to take the dog out.

I second the suggestion for NILIF and keeping him tethered to you when not in a crate but would like to add that you must keep an eye on him. If he is capable of dragging you around you will really want to pay attention so you can prevent him knocking you over, dragging you etc if he decides he wants to go somewhere that you do not. Don't attach the leash to your ankle, that spells ouch.

Pack structure. Very important.

Follow the links you've been given here and read read read! The Ebooks and podcasts here are great resources.

I am torn on the prong. I think it would be a great way to control this dog, "power steering for dogs" and all that... but I would consider perhaps having 2 lines on the dog. One on a choker and one on the prong. If the dog is acting aggressive, then switch lines to the choker. If the dog is pulling and being disobedient without aggression, then switch to the line on the prong.

Prong = Creates drive and intensifies aggression. Often dogs start to associate the pain of the prong with the other dog or person, which just makes them angrier.

Choker/Dominant Dog Collar = Cuts drive, the dog has a harder time breathing. It doesn't inflict pain to the dog, and pain is what makes a dog angry and escalates the aggression.

But I do agree, a prong would be a good way to control the dog, but not while the dog is being a knucklehead

 Quote: mike j schoonbrood

I am torn on the prong. I think it would be a great way to control this dog, "power steering for dogs" and all that... but I would consider perhaps having 2 lines on the dog. One on a choker and one on the prong. If the dog is acting aggressive, then switch lines to the choker. If the dog is pulling and being disobedient without aggression, then switch to the line on the prong.
...
But I do agree, a prong would be a good way to control the dog, but not while the dog is being a knucklehead

Agreed. It was a mixed suggestion.. prong + muzzle so she could get him away from the situations as fast as possible and not get bit from the escalation/possible coming up leash. The double lead sounds like a good idea but depending on how big he is, and he seems to be a pretty accomplished puller, it seems like he would still be able to drag her with a normal choke collar. If he has the muzzle on as well there is less to worry about.

 Quote:

Prong = Creates drive and intensifies aggression.

Heh. Yeah. Been there. That was my learning phase. I don't recommend prongs FOR aggression, it was geared towards control with muzzle. I originally recommended a DD and not a prong until she said she could not control him physically. I think the best thing here as we have both stated is to not take him out in public until you can get assistance.



Edited by Jennifer Marshal (03/06/2008 03:11 AM)
Edit reason: wrong button...

I already do the nothing in life is for free thing, at least most of the time. and he is most of the time obedient asing he obeys simple commands.

Also i forgot to mention another problem, a serious one at that.

Bruno isnt allowed in the rest of the house but my room and garden. so training with the leash i think will be a problem. And when he was rehomed, my mum didnt want him back. I literally blackmailed her sayng if she didnt let him come back i would leave. But she let him stay on the condition he was gone in 3 monthes time or we are both gone.

We have already assesed he is unrehomable. "duh" rotl.

i have been trying to find a home for us, but on my wages it is hard, and not many rented places take in pets. this city has a very high foren persons count. they are floking here like geese which makes it hard to find jobs.

Its a hard situation. i have a choke collar, but he strangles himself with it? is this supposed to happen? i also have a training harness, that tightens on his chest as he pulls.
Would this work?