Newbie question,
Why does not someone start a purely working dog competition? Judging by the comments on this forum it could be a big money maker. Competition is what makes America great. If there is a better way to do something IMO is should be done. It may be the great way to bring balance to the sport.
But I am clueless. To me this sounds like the Hatfields verse the McCoys. Some people like their dogs one way some people like their dogs another.

There are so many different sports out there it's ridiculous. Some folks in Georgia are trying to put together a sport called APPDA, but if the success of ASR is any indicator, I think it'll be a while before trials spread beyond the GA/FL/SC region.

Then in the US there's Schutzhund, PSA, Mondio, French Ring, NVBK, K9 ProSports, and probably some other regional small sports. Guess what? Nobody can agree on which sport is better than the other.

In Europe there's IPO, NVBK, French Ring, Mondio Ring, Schutzhund, the Swedish version of IPO, the Czech version of IPO, KNPV, and probably a handful of others that are drawing a blank for me right now.

And guess what? Everyone thinks their sport is the best too.

The IPO/Schutzhund people like their precision. Everything is a routine and everything has to be precise (except at a Sieger show). The KNPV people are more about practical police work. The French Ring people like making the dog miss the bite. The NVBK people (correct me if I'm wrong, not totally familiar with it, just going on the videos I've seen) like alot of psychological pressure on the dog. The APPDA people want everything to be really "realistic" with lots of physical and psychological pressure put on the dogs. The IPO people think that a dog with a full calm grip biting a sleeve is most impressive. The KNPV people think a body-slamming dog biting the bicep is the best. The French Ring people like dogs biting the legs. The APPDA folks don't care where the dog bites as long as the bite is good. The NVBK people target lower legs and forearms. The bite suit people want a dog that fights and pushes into the bite. The IPO people want a dog that bites and holds on or pulls.

Ofcourse, the PPD (Personal Protection Dog) people just hate all sport because "sport isn't real" and "sport dogs think it's a game and won't perform when the **** hits the fan." So they go off and do their own whacky things and try to do it as opposite to sport methods as possible, because if sport's not real, then the opposite must be right?

Need I go on??

Mike I think you summed it up pretty good! In the show world, the dogs first must pass the work then they go into the ring at the SS.

 Quote:

Some people like their dogs one way some people like their dogs another.

Yep, and that is why God created poodles.........

Wow thanks Mike.
I just got schooled in the realm of dog sports. There is apparently much to learn, which is exciting and intimidating at the same time.

 Quote: mike j schoonbrood

...Ofcourse, the PPD (Personal Protection Dog) people just hate all sport because "sport isn't real" and "sport dogs think it's a game and won't perform when the **** hits the fan." So they go off and do their own whacky things and try to do it as opposite to sport methods as possible, because if sport's not real, then the opposite must be right?

I don't know what other PPD people think or do, but the above doesn't apply to me. I like the precision in the sports and feel the precision is key to control of the dog in PPD. I also don't want to train the opposite of a sport, but instead add to it by means of scenarios and ability and confidence to bite anywhere. I believe a PP dog should be exposed to as many scenarios as possible and trained to react to them appropriately. Of course real life would present many more scenarios than a dog in sports would be exposed to. But that doesn't make me a sports hater.

LOL. I was generalizing. I guess it's one of those things you have to have seen lots of "PPD folks" for to appreciate the humor I know some great PPD trainers, and they laugh at the "PPD people" too. There's alot of weird ideas out there on how to train a PPD.

Just to toss another wrench in the works! At these major SV shows, how much responsability does the helper have in truely testing the dogs?!
I think we can see the same thing as in the judging. If they do an honest job, what is the chance of them being brought back?!
Just an FYI. I've met Beth F and believe she is one of those show breeders that would turely like to make a difference.

 Quote: Bob Scott

Just to toss another wrench in the works! At these major SV shows, how much responsability does the helper have in truely testing the dogs?!
I think we can see the same thing as in the judging. If they do an honest job, what is the chance of them being brought back?!
Just an FYI. I've met Beth F and believe she is one of those show breeders that would turely like to make a difference.

The decoy is there to do the testing and the judge to record.

How many judges want to be The laughingstock on the net like this.
Imagine the name a judge and helper would make if they would truly test and judge the dogs. I and used the net to explain why in 20 years time they will be remembered as the great man that saved the breed

Greetings

Johan

 Quote: mike j schoonbrood

LOL. I was generalizing. I guess it's one of those things you have to have seen lots of "PPD folks" for to appreciate the humor I know some great PPD trainers, and they laugh at the "PPD people" too. There's alot of weird ideas out there on how to train a PPD.

I know you were generalizing, and I don't think for a minute that what you said isn't true - there are most definitely extremists everywhere who take things to the opposite end of the pendulum and I don't even have to have as much exposure in sports or PPD as you've had to know that for a fact; it's an easy guess.

I just want to make sure others don't think we're all the same :wink: