I look at it like this- consider yourself blessed. You have a hard dog- once you get over this hurdle, you'll be able to train the hell out of this dog, because it can take correction without losing drive.

I tend to be a boneheaded optimist with dogs.

Q: 'Have you worked on enforcing a sit command with people at a distance that she is aware of them, but not threatened by them and then slowly decreasing that distance? Then she knows she has to sit and if she doesnt its clear to her what she is being corrected for.'

A, yes that is how trainer #2 suggested she get used to the visitors who are within the house already or at the group obedience classes. she is fine and nondriving and nonaggressive with that approach 95/100of the time. that is why trainer#2 has me 'introduce' the person to her in a cheery voice as they approach, which works in most situations EXCEPT at the front door..


Q: "I said in a cheery voice Here comes Sue! Good Quiet -- " It almost seems like you started amping the dog up with your "cheery voice", so that the dog became on guard, wondering what was going to happen next, so that by the time your friend came towards the door, it was all over. He was too amped up for you to be able to break him out of it. "

A: well, I must respectfully disagree with you. this process of vocal introduction is how trainer #2 suggested we 'defuse' any potential issue from a stranger approaching the door or passing us closeby on the street. it has worked beautifully, same as a LEAVE IT or GOOD QUIET as a ramp - down device, not a ramp up, in 95/100 situations. 9 I guess you'd have to be there to see how well some quiet words to this dog usually successfully defuse any potential aggressive drive . ) The randomness of going into frenzy B/L mode DESPITE the calming words is our present unsolved issue..

As an update: as of today 2 local professionals have finished assessing her. " This dog has an extremely high protective drive to guard its food source." (me)"This dog is in the 97th percentile of protective instinct." "This is a tough dog." " This is a hard dog. " " This dog is sharp ."

we are visiting the breeder tonight for some additional assessment. ( hope they have some masked burglars or jail escapees around to test her ...)

Caroline, I think obedience and attention on you are going to be very important for her. Sit and leave it are absolute. If she's hard, sharp, and that protective I don't think I would bother working on introductions.
I would instead follow the nobody pets my dog advice from this website. With my dog it's helped create a certain amount of indifference around people. From your last sentence it sounds like your going to enjoy this dog like Alyssa said.

I would tend to agree with Steve here ie your goal should be indifference. My dog is sharp and has a strong protective trait. I learned early on that meeting and greeting is uneventful with her in a sit by my side while I interact.

95/100 people do not know how to "greet" a dog and make way too much sustained eye contact and looming posture over the dog IMO.

Katie

Caroline
One thing that may help you is to use a soft round cotton or nylon horse lead rope instead of a flat nylon or leather leash. You will be able to hold onto it much more easily during these random gymnastic events.
I can turn a lunging horse with a large diameter (3/4") rope, if I tried the same thing with the typical dog leash material my hands would be toast and the horse would be long gone.

Also, have you implemented the Nothing In Life Is Free method Ed talks about? It would help the dog understand that you are the leader instead of her, therefore she will not feel the need to take control/bark and lunge when she is surprised.

Mike Arnold, I really appreciate the cut of your jib...

 Quote: mike arnold

Yes, that was me chuckling. I think when you've had dogs for awhile, and multiple dogs at the same time and space, you develop an attitude that accepts little rebellion.

Even my most independent mutt that will stare a stare of death at people or animals or whatever, recognizes my body language and yields - if ever so modestly - when I posture a bit of attitude.

I think that right there is a good 90% of the battle when handling/training dogs. In essence you learn to talk a little "dog", at least enough for any dog you meet to realize that you aren't a pushover.

Mike A, that was an excellent post. I feel like I have really learned something here. hm... expect them to be in a down when people visit. You know, Ed mentions this on his pack structure DVD but for some reason you gave me a more vivid picture of my unruly gang obediently laying on mats when someone comes in.

This would certainly cure the OP's problem of the dog attacking the door; if it's laying down and staying, it cant be lunging. This will take a lot of work, as i imagine it would for my herd of overly enthusiastic greeters.

To the OP, do you have Ed's pack structure DVD? I think it would really help you. Ed shows you how to train the dog to go to its crate on command, then explains how when someone comes to the door you can send the dog to its crate. (Among other ways you will learn how to get control of a dominant dog).

I am not as far (and may never be) as all my dogs lying in their places when someone comes in, but I never open the door until they are sitting and calm. There's about a five-foot area around the door that is dog-free until I release with OK.

The big thing might be that the door isn't opened until that's in place. All I have said is "just a minute" if necessary, and I am not dithering between the dogs and the visitor, and definitely not cheerily talking about the visitor to the dogs.

This is really only a less-succinct way of saying that what Mike insists on with visitors is exactly what I think has to be, only his is better.

Good thread.

And I couldn't agree more that a command is a different voice from a verbal marker.

P.S. I stole "sssst" too. It's sibilant, quick, and unlike other sounds happening in conversations.