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Re: Does not like to walk
[Re: maxlee t. huat ]
#21366 - 08/24/2002 01:05 PM |
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L. As usual you sumed that up with grace...well said.
Leute mögen Hunde, aber Leute LIEBEN ausgebildete Hunde! |
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Re: Does not like to walk
[Re: maxlee t. huat ]
#21367 - 08/24/2002 01:09 PM |
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Compulsion should be a correction/proofing phase of training. Maxlee needs to know if the dog is refusing because of stubbornness or avoidance in order to go on with training or correction. How can she determine this?
old dogs LOVE to learn new tricks |
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Re: Does not like to walk
[Re: maxlee t. huat ]
#21368 - 08/24/2002 01:21 PM |
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Todd, well, then how far would you go?
Lonny, thanks.
OldE, I would assume he doesn't understand and go from there. It all comes down to motivation, whether it's motivating the dog to learn the task, or motivating him to perform the task that he's already learned.
Lisa & Lucy, CGC, Wilderness Airscent
Western Oregon Search Dogs |
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Re: Does not like to walk
[Re: maxlee t. huat ]
#21369 - 08/24/2002 01:41 PM |
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A blanket statement of Every dog for Every exercise is naive. Doesn't matter what methods we are talking about.
Do I user compulsion. When needed. I never correct until after the dog has learned the exercise.
My philosophy is correction before understanding is torture. Correction afterwards is training.
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Re: Does not like to walk
[Re: maxlee t. huat ]
#21370 - 08/24/2002 01:48 PM |
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Yeah that was a pretty bad blanket statement.... How many of us are telling people to go out and track their dog with a broom stick hooked to a prong?
:rolleyes:
Only compulsion is sure, but I venture to say most of us here don't start with compulsion...
I hardly ever train with a leash even in my hand... Dragging as an "emergency brake" but I think you would be suprized how little compulsion is used....
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Re: Does not like to walk
[Re: maxlee t. huat ]
#21371 - 08/24/2002 02:13 PM |
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OH.. congrats Deanna! Very cute avatar!
Leute mögen Hunde, aber Leute LIEBEN ausgebildete Hunde! |
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Re: Does not like to walk
[Re: maxlee t. huat ]
#21372 - 08/24/2002 02:19 PM |
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Thanks Lonny, but lets keep this on topic... I would hate to have to shut this thread down...
So far as telling if the dog is being a butt head or not, well, I would put the dog in my indoor after he had missed a few meals and see if he would follow me for treats with a leash dragging... if so you bet your bottom dollar I would drag him if he started the whole pancake dog routine....
Of course all the dogs that were overweight would pull this when I was the only one there to put them in the tub... you might not think 80lbs of golden is heavy till they go limp and are dead weight.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
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Re: Does not like to walk
[Re: maxlee t. huat ]
#21373 - 08/24/2002 02:41 PM |
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In rereading all these posts, Maxlee, I think, is to soft and needs to drag the dog till he decides to move. Come to think about it, thats how we tought puppies to walk years ago. Primative but effective for the times. Todd's pickup on Maxlee's quote about wanting to train with positive only method was the key. I think,if a trainer understands dogs, you can teach this way. The key is understanding dogs. Keeping it all fun is great if you can find the right motivation. The dog shouldn't make the decision that training is over.
Deanna
Your avatar needs to be showing some teeth. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
old dogs LOVE to learn new tricks |
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Re: Does not like to walk
[Re: maxlee t. huat ]
#21374 - 08/24/2002 03:28 PM |
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OK, poor choice of words. How about, "The vast majority of people on this forum do not buy into "positive reinforcement only" training."?
At any rate, if Maxlee is following the positive reinforcement only philosophy, she is not going to drag the dog. That would be compulsion. Whether or not I agree with that philosophy, I would use motivation first, and if that didn't work, I'd trick him into doing what I want so that I can reward the behavior. Dragging would be a very last resort. When the dog decides that training is over, it's a human problem. You've either bored him to tears, or are expecting more than he's capable of. A 7 month old Golden is perfectly capable of walking on leash. Why he's decided to become a boat anchor is only relevant insofar as that it's symptomatic of an overall problem with the training, and you will have more problems later on when he decides to do this in other situations.
Lisa & Lucy, CGC, Wilderness Airscent
Western Oregon Search Dogs |
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Re: Does not like to walk
[Re: maxlee t. huat ]
#21375 - 08/24/2002 08:44 PM |
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Whew talk about pouncing on poor L.Swanston. Please can we all take a freakin' chill pill. I don't think her original statement is that far off base. She said "Positive only" trainers. I agree...I haven't seen one yet on this board. I don't want to veer this thing off topic but people can generalize anything they want....Oh I've trained this dog with only positive and I trained that dog......bunk. I don't buy it. They may think the dog is fully trained but I'd bet against it. Yes every dog is different. But I don't think there is any dog that dosen't need some compulsion to become 100% reliable no matter the situation. Some dogs may require a minimal amount but some nevertheless. But as far as L.Swanston's comment.....may sound like a blanket statement but pretty damn accurate if you've been around this board since the beginning.
Back to the topic. Deanna's feeling fiesty. She takes no prisoners...even other moderators!LOL <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
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