How frustrating! You have a good attitude though and going back to the beginning is a wise choice. You have received wonderful advice and the only thing I can think to add is that the only time Gizmo gets your attention is when he has pottied in the appropriate place otherwise do not interact with him. Of course, meet his needs but your time and affection are only allotted when he pottys outside.

I would do as Connie suggests and hustle him outside when he begins to go in the house but I would not correct because I think for now less of your attention even negatively will be beneficial in extinguishing the potty in the house habit.

Is there a chance you could provide a doggy door?

It will take time and keep in mind a behavior usually gets worse before it gets better when extinguishing so do not feel you are on the wrong track if you see that happen. Keep us posted.

Hang in there.

I want to ditto everything Connie said.

I got my dog when she was about six months old. She had been mostly in a crate for her first six months and I was told she was crate trained. She was. But she dang sure want' potty trained. I thought I would lose my mind.

I did EXACTLY as Connie and some others said, even going so far as to keep a dairy about when she peed, pooped, ate, drank, etc.

I also tethered her to me. This is the single most important thing you can do, IMO.

Success is just around the corner.

When they say "Party down", really party down. Take treats with you. It's like marker training.

Good luck. It can be done and you can do it.

I've housebroken a fair number of papillons. In short they're not as easy as other dogs I have owned- house soiling is the #1 reason they are given up to rescues after all. I find the reasons for this are entirely human. People don't tend to understand little dogs have a very limited amount of time as puppies that they can hold it. It is not uncommon for toy breeds to not get basic short term bladder control until after 16 weeks old and even as late as 6 months. It's just one of the consequences of shrinking something that should be 40 lbs to 4 lbs. When you combine this with human expectations and lack of consistency of scheduling and structure it creates a little monster. It is however not impossible to housebreak even at 4 years old. They are very clever dogs.

My dogs are 2 times trained. The first training is to a litterbox on wood pellets on command. The second is to the lawn as an acceptable place. I have found in the dog's mind you can train them to go anywhere. The inside outside thing I don't feel really applies because it's all about stimulus and timing.

I have found the grand majority of issues with my dogs who have come to me un housebroken have more to do with a lack of consistency of scheduling and behaviors.

First off your papillon who is unhousebroken needs to have two modes crated - and being told to do something. That constant peeing is housemarking and is a very pain in the ass behavior for intact male dogs. When not being told to do something your boy is behaving like a boy dog... who naturally marks. Idle time is the devil's plaything for both little boys and little boy dogs and you can stop this behavior through obedience training and controlling your dog's idle time. I've never seen a male dog mark when holding a sit, or being made to do a long down. It's the idle time where your dog will start leg lifting. If you want some living hints on how to train a papillon so you can still get other things done in your home please PM.

There are a variety of reasons I use the litterbox (which is a kiddie pool with a 30" X pen around it.) First off papillons soak up water from the ground like a mop head and it rains here 8 months of the year which makes them unhappy to go outside and second eagles and owls who are well known in this area for eating little dogs. This litterbox is in my garage and filled with a 40 lb bag of barn dry pellets. In the beginning of housebreaking we get up in the morning everyone is let out into the garage and they hop in the litter pan and I close the X pen door behind them. Once they go I mark the behavior and let them out into their run for breakfast one at a time. They don't leave the X pen until they've performed the behavior I want. You'd be surprised how bad they need to go first thing in the morning when you first start training this and how quickly they catch on to the reward for the behavior. My usual time in the garage in the morning is about 5-10 minutes which includes me getting everyone fed.
If I have to leave for work they're left in runs otherwise they hop about for 15 minutes and then we go on a walk and then we do things about the house and garden the rest of the day. Remember - patterns of behaviors are your friend, it doesn't mean your life won't have variation - you can do whatever you want when the dog is crated but going back to square one means really going back to square one. Your dog needs to earn privileges through consistency of behavior.

Honestly it doesn't matter if the behavior is marked on concrete, gravel, lawn, or wood pellets. Mark the behavior and with consistency your dog should have the routine down within a week.

THAT is a great post melissa

Well it has been about two months now and I thought I would give you the wonderful update that Gizmo (my Papillion) is well on his way to pottytraining. Once in a while he will go in his kennel, but he has not gone in the house in almost a month and a half!! I still do not trust him to run loose in the house-I don't know if I ever will, my vet would like me to neuter him to curb his wanting to lift his leg (since this round of potty training I have not allowed Gizmo to mark anything), but at Gizmo's age (5yrs old) I don't know what the benefit would be. Thank you for all your input to the housetraining! Any feedback to the neutering of a 5 yr old would be much appreciated.

 Quote: Diana Strand

my vet would like me to neuter him to curb his wanting to lift his leg

Sorry, I confuse easy, but why does your vet care if your dog lifts its leg?

In my limited experience, neutering will have no effect on marking. I'd bet he continues to do so.

Even dogs that are neutered at a very young age will mark just the same as an intact male.

I watched my neutered male learn how to do it from another dog in about 2 minutes. Never marked before then, and hasn't stopped since. It just isn't a problem because peeing in the house is peeing in the house. You just don't do it. Training issue. Also, he only marks on walks when I release him to do whatever. Its my call.:wink:

What kind of problems is it causing? I didn't read back through the whole thread. Was he marking in the house?

Marking at this point will not end with neutering. It's not quite true that early neutering won't curb marking, it does work most of the time when it's done very young. If I have a male dog that's a papillon being sold as a housepet I usually ask that the dog is neutered by 3 months old to deter house marking from even starting because once it has begun it's a hard one to break, especially if they own other dogs.

House marking is a learned behavior. It doesn't matter at this point if he's neutered or not. He has learned to associate (usually smells) with the behavior.

Your vet is good in thought about this issue but very likely knows little about behavior training. Not much changes for a 5 year old dog after neutering, he'd still probably tie a bitch and he'll still mark. Yes the risk of cancer would be down but it's a little like saying amputating your leg prevents broken ankles. The only thing it will 100% prevent is puppies.

I consider marking to be a training issue, and that's how I treat it.

It's a different matter from house-training.

I had a spayed female boxer that lifted her leg and marked until she died from old age. Although, she didn't do that in the house. She was about six months old when I had her spayed.

 Quote: Nora Ferrell

I had a spayed female boxer that lifted her leg and marked until she died from old age. Although, she didn't do that in the house. She was about six months old when I had her spayed.

I can beat that. I had a spayed female PUG who did the same. She didn't care about the lack of aiming equipment and the pee dribbling down the other leg to pool around her foot.

Not inside with her either, though -- that is a training matter.