Quote: Nora Ferrell

... I keep the bag part toward the back.

Me too.

I've learned a lot from this post, and hope this isn't a partial hijack - but I'm only commenting on the flying squirrels... Falcon loves them, loves to eat the "corners" off as he is running back toward you, so now all of our squirrels have duct tape "paws". I sure wish these things weren't 14 bucks a pop!! LOL.

 Quote: connie sutherland

 Quote: nora ferrell

Correct. I did that at first to get her to understand (hopefully) that she was coming to me. I am now "Here" but still keeping treat at her level and this evening I would say "Here and wait for her to start toward me before revealing the treat and marking. Is that right?

ps The timing is driving me crazy

The treat comes out when the command is marked ... not before. The marker means "treat coming" and the marker is given when the command is complied with and over.

Just like with sit. You mark and reward when the dog has sat -- not when the dog has started lowering her butt.

JMHO.

Thanks. I noticed that tonight (when she was in different room) I was saying "Yes!" sometimes when she was moving and sometimes when she was there. She even looked confused once like, 'am I supposed to get the treat?.

Is it ok to have the treat palmed? Or still in the bag?

Nora,

You can use a "keep going signal" (KGS) when your dog starts moving toward you. It is not a mark, but a word that means the dog is on the right track. Michael Ellis, for example, uses "good" as a KGS and "yes" as a marker.

The funny thing about this thread is I have another dog that I have worked very hard on the recall with. He was a very, very shy rescue that took 6 months before he would even approach me on his own. I took him to a Syn Alia trainer and we learned the value of the KGS (called an "intermediate bridge" in Syn Alia speak). The intermediate bridge really, really, really helps the dog know he is doing the right thing. We are encouraged as well to alter the tone of the IB/KGS according to the situation (example: for a stay, the KGS would be said calmly and slowly; for a recall, quickly and excitedly.)

Now, I am going to start the work I obviously should have been doing with the dog in the OP. Now to apply all my book/trainer learnin' into practise! (Easier said than done in my case; I usually lose the forest in the trees...)

Edit: I do palm treats, as long I can hide from the dog that I even have a treat.

Thanks for the heads-up, Angela.

I think I may have been luring and will work on correcting tommorrow.

I have been having a pm with Connie, and I realize I have taught her to come to me "when I am leaning over while staring at her with a treat in my hand".

lol

I've been busy lately, but I'm FINALLY getting around to this...

 Quote: angela burrell

Ed recommends in his articles to go to the dog and give him a correction. WHen my dog saw me marching over, he came right up to me (kind of met me halfway so to speak).

So... do I correct? After all, he approached me.

My personal approach...

The second I call a dog, and they don't come, they get a verbal correction. I move as quickly and calmly to the dog as I can, without neutral body language, and zero eye contact.

When I get to the dog, I calmly take him by the collar (or the scruff, as the case may be), and drag him back to the starting spot. Depending on the dog, and the situation, I may or may not correct him physically (collar or scruff corrections).

I will verbally correct, either way, all the way back to point A.
When I get to point A with the dog. I pause and take a few deep breaths, and then calmly tell the dog "good hier" (or whatever command you use). Then fuzz-butt gets to hang out alone in his crate for a bit, to simmer in the displeasure.

If he has a clear understanding of what the command means, correcting him for responding late, is as fair as if he hadn't responded at all. He understands the reason behind the correction.

If a command is taught to a dog, correctly, it means come to me, do it immediately. No pit-stops. No leg lifting. You get here, NOW.

If the dog understands that to be the meaning of the command, then anything less than that, is noncompliance.
If the command means now, and the dog does it later, the command hasn't been performed, and a correction is in order.

NOW if he DOESN'T fully understand the command, or you aren't sure? You give the dog the benefit of the doubt, give a very mild verbal correction, and put him away.

And back up your training, as suggested by everyone else.

My $0.02

Thanks, Alyssa, for the threads. They are great.

I am so excited about re-doing the recall that I can't wait until tomorrow.

I now realize that the feeble recall I had was only half-assed and useless.

Of course, she would come in the house and most times outside. Until that day.........

Marker training, followed by extensive proofing is key.

Don't wait for the dog to blow you off in real life to correct.

Set the dog up for mini failures, to create a window of opportunity for the dog to gain deeper understanding of what it does, and doesn't mean to "come".

When you control the time and place of the "mistake", you can control the outcome, and the lesson the dog learns.

If the first real incident of proofing comes in an uncontrolled way, the dog may learn any number of things from the incident. The law of averages says, none of them will be the lesson you want.

While you are thinking about training the recall, also consider teaching the down out of motion.
Sometimes recalling the dog puts it in danger- as in, it may return across a busy street and be struck.

Having the down command as solid as the recall, means the dog will drop like a rock where it is, and remain out of harm's way.

Just something else to think about. (part of why I've come to love teaching positions on raised surfaces... it helps drive home the implied stay.)

She is good on the down, but not with staying down. I have been doing some jack pots while telling her to stay. And I am trying to bridge (I hope that is the term) her to go to her place, down and stay, but she is not there, yet.

Working on an elevated surface (it doesn't have to be high. Just enough so the dog is aware that it must maintain balance and remain still to avoid falling.) can really help with the implied stay.

The dog naturally does not want to move from the down position when in an elevated situation (no where to go), and it begins to associate down with stay, without you having really done much.
Then you can begin proofing it on the ground (I personally would never correct a dog in an elevated position. It seems incredibly unfair.)