Joy, just a question as to your take on this, since you feel that dogs can protect their human instictively without any training.... DO you think that other breeds, not just GSDs are capable of attempting to protect thier owners without formal training? I had a poodle years ago that used to make sure that she stayed between me & any service providers that I had come into the house to do repairs. It was as if she drew an invisable line on the floor & she would bark & growel if they tried to 'cross' that line. She also stayed between my son (as an infant in his crib) & anyone other than 'immediate' family when they entered his room. Do you think that this dog was behaving or attempting to 'protect' me or my son?

My brother and I used to walk our 15 year d Cocker at night, in pretty empty areas. On one occassion we passed a man pretty unidentifiable, in dark clothing, and Dolly immediately confronted him. I've yet to see her bare her teeth like that since. She meant business. One other time my uncle was doing our landscaping and he came over early one morning when it was still dark, and she stood barking at growling at him through the sliding glass door. We had to show her who it was and that it was okay. She could never be a PPD or PSD for obvious reasons, but I do think most dogs have some sort of protective instinct like that.

 Quote: Joy van Veen

I have known of several GSDs who with no training instinctively tried to protect their owners in a crisis.

In what way did they try to protect their owners?

 Quote: joy van veen

I have known of several GSDs who with no training instinctively tried to protect their owners in a crisis. "Tried" is the operative word. The attempt is enough against most humans; but for someone armed and determined, it might not be enough. (And as said above, the presence of a klarge dog is often enough deterent alone.) The instince to protect does not come with the knowledge and experience to do so effectively. And an untrained dog might take too long to realize that something more than an alert to a stranger is needed.

Protection against other animals seems to come with a degree of instinctive knowledge of how to respond.

Joy, I find your reply *amazing*.
I've been in the process of writing a book about real world protection events for four years now and I've reviewed 1400 alleged protection events ( and interviewed over 250 people now ) with a less than .5% finding of a dog actually protecting its owner.

For you to know of "several GSD's" that were involved in a protection event is more than most active Police K9 handlers would know.
How is it that you came up with these amazing numbers, may I ask?

I would be interested in what people define as "protecting" as I think that various people on this thread may very well have different ideas as to what protecting means.

For example, if I am startled by a stranger my male ACDs will go on alert and do a hold and bark sort of scenario. However, I do not consider that protecting as I know when the rubber hits the road my guys would likely retreat. That is where my gun comes in :-)

If someone considers barking at a threat "protecting" then I guess there are plenty of dogs that do that. However, most of those dogs are like my guys who would likely disengage if physically assaulted.

Ms. Rosenquist,

"...most of those dogs are like my guys who would likely disengage if physically assaulted."

I absolutely agree. Most untrained in protection dogs -maybe 99% - would disengage at the first whack from the person they were going after. Most dogs are pets, and have been conditioned to respond to commands - none of which are likely to have to do with protection.

I have four GSDs. One might be part of the 1% but to find that out... The other three are pets, and while they will not back down from other dogs, there is a gulf between animal to animal, and animal to human aggression.

Tangentally, I have the same view of folks who just have to get a pistol permit for protection - most would not be able to use it and that is a very dangerous outcome. I trust you are not one of those.

Anyway, too many people confuse their dog's barking with protection. And a barking dog is a great distance from a PPD.

The good news is that most people have no clue when it comes to a dog. And that ignorance leads some to be fearful of any dog, and some to misinterpret a barking dog as a dog that will protect. Without trying to seem more arogant than normal, I would have no problem taking on a protecting pet but I would not be so inclined with a PPD.

A nutcase who is unafraid of a dog is unafraid of a dog. And a nutcase who is unafraid of a pistol... Remember to empty the thing 'out of fear for your life' but do not miss.

Where did that come in this season of kindness?

 Quote:

Tangentally, I have the same view of folks who just have to get a pistol permit for protection - most would not be able to use it and that is a very dangerous outcome. I trust you are not one of those.

Absolutely. I actually do not have my concealed permit anymore and doubt I will ever get it renewed. I spoke from the perspective of someone in my house. Rest assured though, I am well versed in handling of guns in various situations and never underestimate the potential of one's weapon being turned against oneself ;-)

 Quote: will rambeau

I've been in the process of writing a book

I can't wait to read it!! Real world protection is definitely an awesome topic, though I'd probably read anything written by you, Will.

And I think maybe I didn't interpret "protection" correctly and instead used examples of my very unprotective dog being pretty serious in the face of a threat - whether it was a threat to me or her. She would certainly run for the hills if either person attacked, and I wouldn't expect anything more from her. Maybe that's what these GSDs were doing? Just reacting in a way that would make ignorant people view it as protective and scary? Perhaps in the same way as fear aggression - it's gotten results before for whatever reason, so they present it again when they feel it's needed (but would not actually attack if it came down to it).

Now I'm really interested!

 Quote:

If someone considers barking at a threat "protecting" then I guess there are plenty of dogs that do that. However, most of those dogs are like my guys who would likely disengage if physically assaulted.

My white german shepherd that has the protection instinct of Bambi can bark pretty good.

My joke with my husband when walking him that if anyone attacked me he would run home to get my husband....

I believe that many on this forum think that a dog that is actually acting territorial, possesive, or resource guarding is behaving 'protectively' (of them, the owners). Actually in one way they are correct, the dog is acting protectively, but NOT in the way that they think. They are being protective (guarding) what they believe to be 'theirs' (territory or possession/resouce) not in the protection of the owner/handler. This is a common misconception made by many people. As I had stated above about my poodle....she was possession/resouce guarding, not protecting me or my son in the true sense of the word, although, at the time that this took place, I thought that is what she was doing. A number of years later when I learned about dogs working in 'protection work' I knew that this was not the case. A barking growling dog does not make a protection dog. It may act as a deterrent to somone ill intended, especially if the dog is on the larger size. But it is not going to protect you when push comes to shove in the real world, unless it has been trained to do protection work.

ETA... that even with training there are those that will still run in the face of real danger or threat to them.