Yeah,
But he's a puffy coated dog. lol

Me? Conan's sister was a fluffy. He's not. Is that what you mean?

Sorry Katie,
I was remembering scatterings of a thread from a while back.

Didn't mean to disparage your Conan.

Aaaah, but he came from a litter that had thrown one of those fu fu easy to handle puffies!

Lol, I want to track that dog down and see what kind of temperament she has.

Conan is easy to handle compared to working GSDs, Mals, DS, etc. But he's no Golden Retriever either

 Quote: randy allen

Aaaah, but he came from a litter that had thrown one of those fu fu easy to handle puffies!

 Quote: randy allen

The thing that I've found about working line dogs of any bred, ilk, drive or proclivities is that they are very determined to attain whatever it is that moves them.
Committing oneself to the individual dog, especially a GSD, is the most important thing. And not all have the intestinal fortitude to see it through for the dog everyone would like to be owned by.

I love this thought about commitment, especially that it applies to a general canine context. The working vs showline disparity seems exceptionally pronounced in GSDs, but there are many breeds that possesses the potential for a wide range of drive (and corresponding effort, responsibility, challenge, etc) amongst individuals - the most important thing is, as Randy says, "committing oneself to the individual dog".

From the breeders perspective, it no doubt takes a lot of experience and nuance to gauge that level of commitment in a prospective puppy owner, and even a determined novice owner runs the risk of getting in over their head, to the degree that it doesn't work out. The responsible among us do the very best they can (be it placing puppies with perceived appropriate homes, or newbies seeking professional assistance for critical training issues that could determine whether they keep or rehome a dog). As it pertains to those looking for their very first dog - research is the best foundation, but being honest about yourself and what your individual capacity and tolerance levels are should be critical deciding factors in what type of companion you end up with. As Randy notes, that assessment can be a tough pill to swallow for some.

I'm a fan of starting slow and working your way towards bigger challenges through steady experience... though to be honest, through a combination of factors, I actually ended up with rather more dog than I anticipated when I selected my "first". Who knows how different things would be if Oscar were a submissive, easy going, push over of a dog, but I'm guessing I wouldn't be here right now , and wouldn't be nearly so educated about behavior and handling. Our success at least really was dependent on commitment...

What a terrific discussion!

~Natalya

My 4 yo GSD is from a working line. She is a high drive, but very handler soft dog. She is my first WL dog. I got a show line GSD with a hard personality (my family's first dog, my family had no clue, he probably should have gone to an experienced handler) when I was a teenager.

Even though I am still a green trainer, I do know a lot more about dog training than I did back then. In a way, I feel that it is unfair to say my WL GSD is much easier to train than my SL GSD, since my SL was trained with yank/crank, and WL mostly with motivational training. My WL GSD has her prong collar and e-collar, but majority of the time, a firm verbal correction is all she needs to stop any undesirable behavior.

I am very happy with my WL GSD. Looking at my own skill level, she is really more dog than I deserve. I can only get a WL dog with more drive and intensity when I have become a more experienced and better trainer, otherwise I am just wasting his/her potential.

So yes, I think a green trainer can get a WL dog, if the person is committed to properly work the dog mentally and physically. The best two things I've done for my WL GSD were to join this board and my local sports club.

The problem is I don't know how many people are willing to make a commitment to a dog in the long run. People's work situation, marital status, family situation are variables that can negatively impact a dog's life if the handler is not willing to make the dog's well-being one of the top priorities in his/her life.

 Quote:

When it comes to owning high drive working dogs,many people like to talk the talk but fail at the walk the walk part. Lets face it...there are days that we don't feel our best, are sick or are tired, had a long bad day at work...but your dog(s) still need to be worked. You have to ask if people are willing to adjust their lifestyle to acomidate the needs of this kind of dog.

When talking to someone about a pup I never expect and I don't think I would place a dog in a household that needs to make major adjustments, rather I look to see if the dog is a fit in their current life with perhaps some tweaking.

I'm a firm believer that a tired puppy is a good puppy and I have raised my first working line dog in a house with an unfenced postage size lot. It was a corner house with enough traffic that I had no margin for error and most of her yard time was on a line or leash.

While I do remember walking her once in the middle of a three day storm system because she was bouncing off the walls it generally worked.

Maybe my dogs have taken on the personality of their owner and they are a little bit lazier then the norm but if I'm sick and in bed they are pretty much neglected. I remember once when Bogie was under a year old I was at the old house (small lot) with him and I was sicker then a dog. (no pun intended) I was amazed at how well he did considering how much crate time he had. I would sleep, get up, put a leash on him, and potty him 5 feet from the door, go back in and crash. Repeat in 5-6 hours.

This is a dog that at our regular house, has a large run, several fenced in acres and his sister to beat up/play with.

Training the dogs I find works great in small 5 minute sessions normally. A lot of it can be incorporated in their daily routine. Most of my dogs have learned a long down at my office during lunch. Platz, bite of hamuburger for me, good platz and a french fry between their paws. Repeat...LOL

Maybe I have a different vision of what my dogs should be then most. I want them to be able to settle in a house and be part of the family. I want my dogs to be companions and protectors first, working dogs second.

For me the biggest challange when these dogs are young is that they are simply smarter then I am and more determined.

My decoy/trainer and I are practically speaking in Pig latin on the field with Bacall. We hold our bodies stiff as a board trying not to cue her with body language when we are changing the training plan.

Damn if she still doesn't anticipate us. With a grin on her face.