Perhaps, but I found the thread: the "gift"

Sorry for the digression....

 Quote: Sonya Gilmore

See, our Bullmastiffs were very social. Not a hesitant bone in their bodies. Other than Lunk's one fear phase that led to her barking at a Michael Jordan beach towel hanging in the back yard and us making fun of her...they were bomb proof. Bullmastiffs too are NOT bite dogs. Their breeding was to knock down and hold. Hard to take a poacher to court if you dog had eaten him. They do sometimes have some dog aggression. And just the sheer power of them I found was more than enough for folks to ask about petting.

I like having dogs that do something for people..not just me maybe. I want to train a search and rescue too. But I enjoy therapy work.

And NO, no more pregnancy for me. The next infant here will be grands and not for a few. Phew! I was just comparing how you can forget the misery because of the end product....like a puppy that seems to bite and chew forever...then one day you realize it doesn't anymore.

Just like researching a breed's exercise requirements to see if they fall in line with yours, you should also research the breed's general temperament per the breed standard. The breed standard for rottweilers says they should be calm, confident and courageous dogs. Loving with family and friends and aloof with strangers. It's not supposed to be a social dog, even though breeders have been erroneously breeding the aggression out of them for many years. It was originally a Roman war dog that settled in Rottweil, Germany. There they were bred as herding dogs, drovers for butchers, and personal protection on the way back from the market. The butcher would put his coins in a purse around the dog's neck and a highwayman had to contend with the dog to get the money. A knock-you-down-and-slobber-on-you dog just wouldn't suit that goal. The dog has to be flat out aggressive and willing to fight. That's why the breed was used so extensively for PSD, MWD, and PPD work until people started switching to the more agile breeds.

If it looks like a rottie, it should act like one even given the wide range of individual temperaments in any breed. Even a pet quality dog should be naturally aloof with strangers. This is why I contend that this is not the correct breed for someone that wants a social butterfly of a dog. There's nothing wrong with wanting that kind of a dog, just pick the right tool for the job. Sure, you can build a house with a screwdriver but, a hammer is going to be a whole lot more efficient.

My dog isn't scared of people, he's intolerant of intruders and just flat out doesn't like anyone other than my family. I own dogs because this is what I want them to do for me. When I'm out on the road it's comforting to know that my wife has a dog like this around. When we have kids, it will be comforting to know that some &@#! isn't going to climb through a window or walk into my yard to abduct a child. If that means some people get hurt feelings about not being able to pet my dog, so be it.

 Quote:

Loving with family and friends and aloof with strangers.

Aloof with strangers is one thing, hostile toward them is something else. My dog's 'aloofness' manifests itself in the way he tends to ignore all the people. He has a stable temperament and was raised around kids and crowds so he knows the rules. And of course, he's ALWAYS supervised. And just because he's your pal at the picnic, doesn't mean he's going to let you in the front door if I'm not home.

Different breed of course, but a guarding breed nonetheless and my point is the same:

IMHO many good, stable confident dogs CAN be social to some degree, irregardless of breed. Of course it comes more naturally to some breeds than others, but I'm not going to leave my dog out of everything and keep him locked up at home, "just in case", because he's a guarding breed.

I'm the leader, I'm the one who determines who's a friend and who isn't. If I'm cool and relaxed, that's exactly how I expect my dog to be, and so he is. If he were an animal I could barely manage then it would be a different story.

I do just about everything with my dog, including go on vacation. I always have, and so he doesn't know any different.

I say choose a good, stable puppy from a breed that temperamentally suits you, and then raise them to fit your life, whatever that looks like (common sense applicable). It doesn't always work that way, of course, but I'm not a fan of pigeon-holing ANY breed into some narrow interpretation of a breed standard.

Just want to throw my 2 cents in. I am in no way an expert-I'm just sharing an experience. We had a Chow for 14 years. This dog was constantly around adults, children, and other dogs when she was a pup, and she was wonderful with everyone, if not a tad aloof. However, at around 5, she slowly started to become more and more protective of my hubby, daughter, and I. By the time she was 10, there were very few people who could come into our home without us having to lock her in the kitchen. They were bred to be guard dogs, and let me tell you, no one would get past her to get to us. However, that's not what we were really looking for....we just knew nothing about the breed when we got her. My cousin also had a very similar experience with her Rottweiler.
I was always very much against stereotyping a breed of dog, and I still am to a point. I just think that different breeds have different natural instincts, and they can easily come out. If we knew what we were doing, and if dog trainers and behavioralists were as big as they are today, we probably could have stopped our dog's changing temperament early, and although she may never have loved strangers, she probably could have at least tolerated them when we told her to.
Then again, we now have a fear aggressive mutt, so maybe it's just us..lol!

I understand Rottweilers are meant to be guards..and he will be.. But at 10 weeks I definitely want to get him out around people. Just because hundreds of years ago they were used as war dogs doesn't mean I can't have one that is tolerant of people! I think a well bred and socialized rottweiler is tollerant of people.

Anyways.. back on topic. I had a bad experience with Arnold 2 days ago at petsmart. I took him there to get a better fitting crate since he's grown a fair amount. I had him on the leash and turned to pick up the crate and a gigantic woman (head trainer there!) ran up to Arnold and bent way over him and tried to pick him up without saying a word to me! Normally people ask, and after I say it's ok they let him come to them, or at least approach slowly! He was scared and ducked down and peed a little bit. The lady said "oh! He's a pee'er!" I grabbed him away from her and said "I think it's common courtesy to ask to pet someones dog.. and downright rude to pick someones dog up.." She tried to argue but I didnt bother with her and left. Since then Arnold has met a few new people and has not had experiences like this so i'm pretty sure he's not a "Pee'er".

 Quote: ryan rubel

I understand Rottweilers are meant to be guards..and he will be.. But at 10 weeks I definitely want to get him out around people. Just because hundreds of years ago they were used as war dogs doesn't mean I can't have one that is tolerant of people! I think a well bred and socialized rottweiler is tollerant of people.

You tell him!!!! (Scott G that is) I think you are right on track!!!

 Quote: ryan rubel

Anyways.. back on topic. I had a bad experience with Arnold 2 days ago at petsmart. I took him there to get a better fitting crate since he's grown a fair amount. I had him on the leash and turned to pick up the crate and a gigantic woman (head trainer there!) ran up to Arnold and bent way over him and tried to pick him up without saying a word to me! Normally people ask, and after I say it's ok they let him come to them, or at least approach slowly! He was scared and ducked down and peed a little bit. The lady said "oh! He's a pee'er!" I grabbed him away from her and said "I think it's common courtesy to ask to pet someones dog.. and downright rude to pick someones dog up.." She tried to argue but I didnt bother with her and left. Since then Arnold has met a few new people and has not had experiences like this so i'm pretty sure he's not a "Pee'er".

Good for YOU!!, carry pepper spray next time I would have been PISSED!!!

You can buy one of these: http://leerburg.com/servicevests.htm

I had one for my puppy and it did work to a certain extent, except for some people, then you get to be a little more forceful with your tone of voice...The only problem is they are kinda expensive for a growing pup. It is difficult to explain to some people, but do the best you can.

Good Luck to you!!!

 Quote: scott kapphahn

Good for YOU!! I would have been PISSED!!!

But not because you're a "pee-er", right Scott?

So sorry, couldn't help myself...

Ryan - that woman certainly deserved a stern talking to for such innapropriate behavior, glad it sounds like you gave her one! I personally do not care for those big pet chain stores... I have yet to encounter employees (or clientele for that matter) that have ANY clue what they're doing, in relation to dogs anyway, and the few times I've been in with Oscar I always feel we're at risk for 'assault by stupid'! Who tries to pick up someone's leashed puppy without asking first?!!

~Natalya


Edited by Natalya Zahn (04/21/2010 10:47 AM)
Edit reason: spelling

People think its sooooo sweet when Danke sits on top of their feet and gives 'em her nice puppy look.

If only they knew.

She's not being cuddly. She's letting you know what she thinks of you.

 Quote: natalya zahn

 Quote: scott kapphahn

Good for YOU!! I would have been PISSED!!!

But not because you're a "pee-er", right Scott?

So sorry, couldn't help myself...

Maybe!! Do you get in trouble for lifting a leg on another human, last time I did that I was put in a 8x10 human crate. Oh, that's just gross, sorry about that, but the lady deserved it (the PetSmart lady, I have never really done it)

 Quote: natalya zahn

I have yet to encounter employees (or clientele for that matter) that have ANY clue what they're doing, in relation to dogs anyway, and the few times I've been in with Oscar I always feel we're at risk for 'assault by stupid'!

That's just at chain stores? I am moving to where you live.

I rarely bring Murphy into pet stores. I can't really think of a good reason to. We have one good one here where the folks are knowledgeable and dog-savy that tends to provide a good experience, but at most of the others it's just not the case.